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The Final Solution( Not For Nazi Germany) Rear Suspension

Started by abunaiS12 · Apr 12, 2007 · 72postsSMF 2010–26

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 2:02 am · #1

i havent been this happy with my car in a long while. i finally got my agx mustang shocks(there just designated for a mustang because thats what they fit not because there made by ford, if they fit on our car too then there also designated for an s12 so dont get your panties in a bunch about it being a crossbreed or something) today and i put them in along with the swift springs. so this is what i did.....

first i put in the new much shorter foxbody(late 80's-early 90's)mustang shocks and didnt tighten them on the top yet i left them loose, then i used a hacksaw to cut away part of the spring mount in order to fit the smaller 2.5"ID spring.
posted image

then i cut the mound part off of the old bottom spring seat to make it smaller and i put the 9" length swift spring in and then tightened the top of the shock up.(easy to tighten once you get a 14mm wrench on the top nut and just turn the dust cover on the shock)
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heres the amazingly good news, the length of the spring is PERFECT because it lowers the car at the perfect height IMO and guess what, with the mustang shock at full extension the spring CAN NOT COME OUT it is just barely loose but will never ever come out no matter dukes of hazard jumping or otherwise, it will not come out, so no cable and eyelets necessary and no sleeves and perches necessary. its a thing-a-beauty
posted image

although it looks very low if you look at fender level there is still room to go down so it wont rub hitting potholes and you dont have to roll the fenders( at least with my wheel specs-16x8,+26,205/50)
after i finished putting in the rear it started pooring rain so ill have to do the front tomorrow but success! btw the kybs are great.
doing this was CAKE especially if you have a hydraulic jack lol i use the one that came with the spare kit

no this isnt an adjustable setup but who cares its at the perfect height to me and once i slot or redrill the subframe it wont be adjustable anyway. camber isnt horrible but it is definitely noticeable. the reason why i did this is because lowering springs dont lower enough and especially with vg30 they lower the front and not the back very much and you dont have a choice of stiffness with lowering springs. with this setup you can pick your specs to suit and 2.5"ID springs are fairly cheap and like i said you can get exact specs although i wouldnt recommend anything shorter than 9" length in the rear because then you would need the cables and eyelets

good job needca on finding out about the mustang shocks

kickinDCsApr 12, 2007, 2:22 am · #2

well played
ant wait to see the front

NamelessApr 12, 2007, 3:34 am · #3

looks good man, i wouldnt have gone that route but that doesnt matter Now let us know how it feels on the road!

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 3:40 am · #4

Namelesslooks good man, i wouldnt have gone that route but that doesnt matter Now let us know how it feels on the road!

tomorrow ill put in the fronts but then i still wont have the front agx struts ill test it anyway though

NamelessApr 12, 2007, 3:41 am · #5

ah when do you get your fronts?

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 3:44 am · #6

Namelessah when do you get your fronts?

well i have the front springs but right now im about 60 bucks away from being able to afford the front sw20 mr2 agx struts ill probably have them by next week

NamelessApr 12, 2007, 3:55 am · #7

Nice, hope it all comes together for you.

asparagusApr 12, 2007, 3:57 am · #8

looks great! something i might consider since the megan thing is taking a lifetime

oldschoolsilviaApr 12, 2007, 4:22 am · #9

Awesome, hurry up and get the front lowered I want to see the entire car with its new stance

cOilOVerkIdApr 12, 2007, 5:17 am · #10

Nice wheels.

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 5:24 am · #11

thanks i only have 2 though

if you buy eibach springs they are 60 bucks a pair so 120 all around plus the cost of new shocks which i happened to get the agxs which are kinda spendy but you dont have to get those you just need ones that are firm enough for the springs and are 3 inches shorter(mustang) than stock s12 shocks(mr2 in the front) I have pretty stiff ratings thats why i got the agxs but if you choose something softer i think you can get away with buying cheaper shocks and struts and end up spending less than 250 for all of it. for me ive spent 320 on 4 springs and 160 on 2 shocks and im about to spend another 160 on struts so all in all 680 bucks but i got very expensive springs and somewhat expensive shocks

btw i think this would actually be even better for sra because you wouldnt have to cut any spring mount (i dont think?)

GopherApr 12, 2007, 6:42 am · #12

nice job thats exactly what i had planned to do using the AE86 springs on the s12 thats perfect and the springs ar 2.5 9inch whatever rate you want yes?

erik_200sxdriftApr 12, 2007, 6:51 am · #13

nice write up man!!!

i like the way you explained stuff, this should be a sticky in the suspension forum

rageApr 12, 2007, 9:41 am · #14

i still dont like how that spring is sitting
even if it stays on there like that.

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 3:33 pm · #15

ragei still dont like how that spring is sitting
even if it stays on there like that.

that picture doesnt do it justice trust me its not going anywhere and once the wheel is back on it sits flush it doesnt sit awkward or anything and its on a spring seat so no noise youll just have to do it to see what im talking about or dont. btw if what your talking about is the top being over to the side and not centered tahts the looseness it will just barely move side to side like that at the top so all you have to do is make sure its centered while your putting the car back down it doesnt have to sit to the side like that thats just that picture.

Gophernice job thats exactly what i had planned to do using the AE86 springs on the s12 thats perfect and the springs ar 2.5 9inch whatever rate you want yes?

yea any rate, heres the thing though these mustang shocks pull it up so much that the 9 inch length spring is sitting in there without any vertical movement so putting anything longer in wouldnt change the height(or wait would it? im psyched out) so pretty much it has to be 9" length only with the mustang shocks any longer and it wont change anything any shorter and the spring could come out and the car would be ridiculously low. remember though softer ratings mean the spring will compress more. so i guess you could get the 10" lenght if you got like 3-4kg springs(mine are 7kg-about 400lbs/in)because if you go soft ratings with the 9 inch length it might be too low. im gonna do the fronts now

erik_200sxdriftnice write up man!!!

i like the way you explained stuff, this should be a sticky in the suspension forum

thanks

abunaiS12Apr 12, 2007, 8:41 pm · #16

ok well i did the fronts and its totally off way too high even .5 inch higher than before! with this setup..
posted image

this is with all the stuff from the stock setup and the extra spring seat so somehow i need to get rid of about 2.5 inches, any ideas?
im thinking i need to cut the 3 bolt plate so its flat basically and take out the ball bearing part completely and the thick spring seat that might get me 2.5 inches but would that be an ok way to do it? what is the point of that ball bearing thing anyway

ahhhhggg im such an idiot i didnt even think about the fact of how the larger spring sits up higher because it goes to the outsides of the mount thing and the way i just did it went to the inside about 2.5 inches lower! duh!!

gerrybgApr 12, 2007, 11:20 pm · #17

So exactly what rating are your rear springs in lbs or kgs ??? People who want to do this need to know exactly, as stiffer rating springs would sit higher and softer rating springs would sit lower.

Also you mentioned SRA would be even better,(is it better because the ID of the springs is wider?) sorry to be a noob on this but what is SRA??

What model mustang are the shocks for??

oldschoolsilviaApr 12, 2007, 11:38 pm · #18

SRA= Solid Rear Axle

abunaiS12Apr 13, 2007, 7:45 am · #19

gerrybgSo exactly what rating are your rear springs in lbs or kgs ??? People who want to do this need to know exactly, as stiffer rating springs would sit higher and softer rating springs would sit lower.

Also you mentioned SRA would be even better,(is it better because the ID of the springs is wider?) sorry to be a noob on this but what is SRA??

What model mustang are the shocks for??

umm i used 7kg in the rear which is like 400lbs/in fairly stiff and it really shouldnt be any lower than it is so if you get something softer than 400lbs than you should get the 10"length. it is for the foxbody mustangs late 80s early 90s ones doesnt matter 5.0 or otherwise

i cut the 3 bolt plates flat and shorter and i put it back down and it dropped about 2 inches in the front not quite enough but not bad. i made a mistake for the front if anyone else does this make sure you order 6 inch length springs i ordered 8 inch

heatwApr 13, 2007, 4:53 pm · #20

this is with all the stuff from the stock setup and the extra spring seat so somehow i need to get rid of about 2.5 inches, any ideas?
im thinking i need to cut the 3 bolt plate so its flat basically and take out the ball bearing part completely and the thick spring seat that might get me 2.5 inches but would that be an ok way to do it? what is the point of that ball bearing thing anyway

if you want to fix this just buy camber plates from coilovers you can get camber plates from s13 coils dirty cheap or you can even buy them new by themselves for a good price..they are many many times shorter than the stock bearing thingy and spring perch plus you gain camber adjustability

sam31183Apr 13, 2007, 7:30 pm · #21

Do you have any pics of how low the front is right now with those springs on it anyways?

abunaiS12Apr 13, 2007, 7:53 pm · #22

heatwif you want to fix this just buy camber plates from coilovers you can get camber plates from s13 coils dirty cheap or you can even buy them new by themselves for a good price..they are many many times shorter than the stock bearing thingy and spring perch plus you gain camber adjustability

yea i think ill do that good idea

sam31183Do you have any pics of how low the front is right now with those springs on it anyways?

yea ill get some up today

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 1:27 am · #23

ok heres some pics of it finished i think with camber plates soon it will be just about perfect, i had to cut the original one just to make it sit this way and i didnt cut all of it so theres still room to go down, i think with camber plates it will bring it down to the perfect height, you can see with that little hacksaw blade resting flat on the tire that the rear is almost exactly flush with the fender while the front is still about an inch gap. overall i think it looks good though. as far as how it feels....ooooo its nice being that much lower to the ground is just amazing anyway plus the feel of the new springs and shocks is very nice not too stiff actually, and no noise either. i mean its stiff but not horribly jarring i didnt really go over any serious bumps but i went over a pothole and it wasnt that bad. cornering is like 0 body roll, its very nice, after i lowered the front i confirmed what i already thought my front swaybar is bent on the right side the wheel is slightly back of center and i had a feeling it was bent after i crashed into that curb , i replaced everything under there but the swaybar so i guess i need a new one.anyway heres the end result....

posted image

silvia loveApr 14, 2007, 1:39 am · #24

abunaiS12ok well i did the fronts and its totally off way too high even .5 inch higher than before! with this setup..

this is with all the stuff from the stock setup and the extra spring seat so somehow i need to get rid of about 2.5 inches, any ideas?
im thinking i need to cut the 3 bolt plate so its flat basically and take out the ball bearing part completely and the thick spring seat that might get me 2.5 inches but would that be an ok way to do it? what is the point of that ball bearing thing anyway
ahhhhggg im such an idiot i didnt even think about the fact of how the larger spring sits up higher because it goes to the outsides of the mount thing and the way i just did it went to the inside about 2.5 inches lower! duh!!

why dont you cut off the stock spring perch, grind it down smooth so u got a good surface to weld with, then take it to a welder and have them weld it 1-1.5" lower on the strut tube. then have them weld a few tabs on the perch to hold the spring down so it can't pop out of place. then maybe camber plates......

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 1:41 am · #25

silvia lovewhy dont you cut off the stock spring perch, grind it down smooth so u got a good surface to weld with, then take it to a welder and have them weld it 1-1.5" lower on the strut tube. then have them weld a few tabs on the perch to hold the spring down so it can't pop out of place. then maybe camber plates......

because he said he would charge 150 bucks lol to do exactly that
besides with camber plates it will bring it down exactly right any lower and the wheel will rub

silvia loveApr 14, 2007, 1:45 am · #26

abunaiS12because he said he would charge 150 bucks lol to do exactly that

it should take less than 30 min to weld it 150 is kinda high, shop around a lil. cut it off yourself and match mark where the perch sat originally so they can line it up if you do go that route. that way for the welder its just weld and let cool. try to go to local body shops or muffler shops they can do it for a lil cheaper im sure.

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 1:47 am · #27

silvia loveit should take less than 30 min to weld it 150 is kinda high, shop around a lil. cut it off yourself and match mark where the perch sat originally so they can line it up if you do go that route. that way for the welder its just weld and let cool. try to go to local body shops or muffler shops they can do it for a lil cheaper im sure.

yea i know ridiculous but like i said i dont really need to do that because camber plates will bring it down perfect anyway it doesnt need to go lower on the strut tube and with the setup now it doesnt make noise doesnt move around and feels good

silvia loveApr 14, 2007, 1:52 am · #28

abunaiS12yea i know ridiculous but like i said i dont really need to do that because camber plates will bring it down perfect anyway it doesnt need to go lower on the strut tube and with the setup now it doesnt make noise doesnt move around and feels good

do camber plates even lower it more?

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 1:55 am · #29

silvia lovedo camber plates even lower it more?

yea they will because they are basically flat up to the top as opposed to how it is now with the 3 bolts going up to the top but the thing extends down like an inch so camber plates will fix it for sure and ill get adjustability so i can run some demon camber!

silvia loveApr 14, 2007, 2:02 am · #30

abunaiS12yea they will because they are basically flat up to the top as opposed to how it is now with the 3 bolts going up to the top but the thing extends down like an inch so camber plates will fix it for sure and ill get adjustability so i can run some demon camber!

hmmm my mk1 s12 has the stocks and they are flat, then my mk2 has stocks but they sink in like u say.
i always percieved camber plates to be the same width from spring to top mount. under the camber plates theres a hat that when layed on a flat surface next to a stock unit they would be level. it may bring the strut shaft lower but i still cant see it lowering the car.the spring is still going to have tension to raise the car to the same height its at now. hmmm i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 2:08 am · #31

silvia lovehmmm my mk1 s12 has the stocks and they are flat, then my mk2 has stocks but they sink in like u say.
i always percieved camber plates to be the same width from spring to top mount. under the camber plates theres a hat that when layed on a flat surface next to a stock unit they would be level. it may bring the strut shaft lower but i still cant see it lowering the car.the spring is still going to have tension to raise the car to the same height its at now. hmmm i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

hmm me too, really the front just needs to go down about 1/2 an inch to allow some body roll and full turning without rubbing if you look at the picture you can see the gap is actually 7/8 inch so i think i can find a camber plate that will be the right width to bring it down 3/8 of an inch

silvia loveApr 14, 2007, 2:10 am · #32

roll your fenders!

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 2:13 am · #33

silvia loveroll your fenders!

lol no thanks im not interested in it being that low or having to do that
plus i think i should modify the rear spring seats so they fit 2.5"ID and then the rear will go up about half inch then it will really be level and really wont move a hair in fact i think im gonna do that in a few minutes

abunaiS12Apr 14, 2007, 3:22 am · #34

silvia lovehmmm my mk1 s12 has the stocks and they are flat, then my mk2 has stocks but they sink in like u say.
i always percieved camber plates to be the same width from spring to top mount. under the camber plates theres a hat that when layed on a flat surface next to a stock unit they would be level. it may bring the strut shaft lower but i still cant see it lowering the car.the spring is still going to have tension to raise the car to the same height its at now. hmmm i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

this is what techno toy tuning says about their 280zx camber plates-"Stainless steel sleeve to size down the oversize bearings to your shock shaft" therefore it will bring it down alittle and thats all i need

rageApr 14, 2007, 7:08 am · #35

id get the spl ones, not all camber plates will lower it.. spl is adjustable anyway

abunaiS12Apr 15, 2007, 7:18 pm · #36

rageid get the spl ones, not all camber plates will lower it.. spl is adjustable anyway

can you give me a link because i cant seem to find them individually on their site

gerrybgApr 15, 2007, 10:57 pm · #37

Sorry just going back to something you said on page 1 of this thread:

"...these mustang shocks pull it up so much that the 9 inch length spring is sitting in there without any vertical movement so putting anything longer in wouldnt change the height(or wait would it? im psyched out) so pretty much it has to be 9" length only with the mustang shocks any longer and it wont change anything ..."

Is what your saying above that the shocks stop the spring pressing upwards therefore giving you this ride height.

So is there much travel left in the suspension?

abunaiS12Apr 15, 2007, 11:30 pm · #38

gerrybgSorry just going back to something you said on page 1 of this thread:

"...these mustang shocks pull it up so much that the 9 inch length spring is sitting in there without any vertical movement so putting anything longer in wouldnt change the height(or wait would it? im psyched out) so pretty much it has to be 9" length only with the mustang shocks any longer and it wont change anything ..."

Is what your saying above that the shocks stop the spring pressing upwards therefore giving you this ride height.

So is there much travel left in the suspension?

umm im a little confused what your asking, if your asking if the shorter shock prevents the spring from compressing no thats not the case, the advantage of the mustang shock is that at full extension its shorter so you dont need cables and eyelets to keep the spring from coming out as opposed to having the stock ones when the car is back on the ground its the same either shock except the stock ones might hit the bumpstops on a big pothole or something. when the shock is fully extended the spring is resting in between the bottom and top mount at 0 compression but also will not come out because its basically exactly the right length shock so the spring then compresses down when you lower the car back down perfectly because the starting point is 0 compression making it a very straightforward setup. heres the thing though with that setup i did not have the upper spring seats in and the spring could possibly come out of position(not fall out but move slightly), well i put the spring seats back in and it now sits in their absolutely motionless will not budge and raised the car up about 3/8 inch(1"gap in the front,1/4" gap in the rear) this is what it now looks like you might not notice the difference but now the spring will not shift positions and will NEVER come out. if you wanted to say put 10" length springs in because you wanted to go softer rates in the rear what you could do to accomodate this is put about 3/4 inch worth of washers at the top of the shock and then tighten it and that way you could also have the compression starting at 0 not truly necessary though. sorry for the essay again
posted image

basically my car is as low as it will go without having problems with speed bumps and i hate it when i see some fag in a civic crabwalking over speedbumps. the car even though higher in the front looks very level and i think that front lip actually might give me problems if i go any lower so maybe ill just keep it like this with the 1" gap in the front(once again it doesnt have to have that gap i just guessed the wrong length spring get 6" length springs and you wont have this problem) btw something is a little screwy with the right side someone said that z31 control arms are wider, i think its just the opposite because my wheel on the left sits out farther then my wheel on the right by about 3/8 of an inch hmmmm(i replaced the right control arm with z31)

SpooledApr 16, 2007, 1:36 am · #39

I like it. I might do the same in the rear temporarily while I gather the rest of my parts for my S13 rear subframe swap. One question - why did you choose 9kg front and 7kg rear? The stock spring rates for the SE are 116 lb/in front and 157 lb/in rear. That's a 40 lb/in bias towards the rear. I assume Nissan did this for a reason. I'm curious as to whether a split more like 7kg front and 8kg rear would be a better choice. The mathematics in figuring good springs rates is a little above my head, and it may be a fine setup to have 9kg front and 7kg rear - I just wanted to mention this so you're aware.

abunaiS12Apr 16, 2007, 2:48 am · #40

SpooledI like it. I might do the same in the rear temporarily while I gather the rest of my parts for my S13 rear subframe swap. One question - why did you choose 9kg front and 7kg rear? The stock spring rates for the SE are 116 lb/in front and 157 lb/in rear. That's a 40 lb/in bias towards the rear. I assume Nissan did this for a reason. I'm curious as to whether a split more like 7kg front and 8kg rear would be a better choice. The mathematics in figuring good springs rates is a little above my head, and it may be a fine setup to have 9kg front and 7kg rear - I just wanted to mention this so you're aware.

yea.... well heres the thing everything i have done on my car, everything i have fixed or added is my first time doing it, with not just an s12 but any car so im just trying to make semieducated guesses as i go along so its not like i was like well after years of experience im going to pick 9 and 7 i just kinda guessed and looked and asked around at other setups and thought it would be good which it feels great so im happy with it i havent had a chance to drift with it but i have driven around with it. i would have thought that the rear would be less stiff thats interesting. i would definitely recommend someone else trying my setup its very simple and SUPER EASY to do and that way someone else could try different specs and see if its better or not

by the way has anyone done this in the front yet? its for s14 so wouldnt it work with s13/s14 front swap stuff
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SpooledMay 6, 2007, 6:49 am · #41

LOL I'll try to get some pics tomorrow, but no promises.

GyllomMay 19, 2007, 1:29 am · #42

If your 9" 800s raise your rear .5", should I go with 8" 900 or 1000 ?

Try to post pics, it will help me decide on what to buy.

GopherMay 22, 2007, 5:13 am · #43

PICS SPOOLED PICS!!!!!!!!

EquinoxJun 1, 2007, 7:43 am · #44

NeedCAforS13wow. i didn't realize how similar e30 rear suspension was to s12. maybe we can use e30 rear suspension stuffs...

Think we could get away with using bmwe30 suspension parts then? I've been looking around for a alternative to suspension other then swapping in s13 coilovers, waiting forever for suspension companies to get back to me, and would like to do more then springs shocks and struts.

Would something like this be a good idea?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bmw-E30-325...123048202QQrdZ1

rageJun 1, 2007, 9:56 am · #45

nothing will likely 'fit' without a good amount of mods.

Ju_S12_TurboJun 19, 2007, 7:26 am · #46

Bump I want to see spooled set up. And where are you finding the 2.5" x 9" ??? All I can find is the 2.5" x 10" and the 2.5" x 8"

PaulJun 19, 2007, 6:45 pm · #47

EquinoxThink we could get away with using bmwe30 suspension parts then? I've been looking around for a alternative to suspension other then swapping in s13 coilovers, waiting forever for suspension companies to get back to me, and would like to do more then springs shocks and struts.

Would something like this be a good idea?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bmw-E30-325...123048202QQrdZ1

No those are BMW front control arms.

worr20Jun 26, 2007, 7:06 am · #48

Im thinking about getting 8in 8kg springs for the rear. is this too short where its gonna come out or will it just make it. I noticed on abunai s12 car that there was still some room to drop the car down even more in the back. I like my car slammed

mod_mastazJun 26, 2007, 7:11 am · #49

Reading through this thread, 8in springs would be fine, just remember to use the Mustang AGX shocks to go along with as stock shocks are longer, which means the spring will pop out.

Edit: Mustang AGX from a foxbody(80s one)

worr20Jun 26, 2007, 7:23 am · #50

yeah thats kinda what I was thinking too. i have 300zx kyb shocks on now. I guess ill try it on that and if it falls out i'll get those mustang ones.