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Which engine is better I'm trying to make 300hp at the very most just a fun car i can still whoop some ass in. Not a monster of any sorts. I am leaning towards ca18det and getting bigger injectors, fuel rail, fuel pump, and upping to boost and some other stuff. I just got the car not even a month ago and I love it alot jsut so fun to drive. What do yall recommend.
Worst thead evah!
Seriously though you can't compare a 1.8L engine against a 2L engine.
The SR will make the power more easily and be more reliable doing it just because it won't be as stressed, however they cost alot more then CAs.
Pick a budget and buy what you can afford.
If you are talking wheel hp the CA won't do it reliably unless you rebuild it or don't drive it hard for a extended period (ie at the circuit). Fact of life is that a small engine making big power will be pretty highly stressed, also you will be looking at big $$ on support systems.
An SR will do it ok on stock internals however it will also need decent cash spent on all the support systems.
If you are talking engine hp then the SR will do it pretty easily, the CA will do it as well, both will need a new turbo and once again some decent support systems.
IMHO (ie not supported by any facts, just supported by what i've seen at the track and generally heard about from mates) if you want 170-180rwkw or less then the CA is a good choice, if you want over that i'd go for the SR since it doesn't run out of reliabilty as quickly.
Also do a search it's been covered many many times before.
moving to the hybrid forum. Please make sure you post in the right section, thanks.
Indecisivemoving to the hybrid forum. Please make sure you post in the right section, thanks.
ca20e will make 350hp on nos reliably without any problems...
sam31183ca20e will make 350hp on nos reliably without any problems...yep, ive seen ca20e's do 190hp on exhaust and intake, those engines are really compact and strong
sr all the way for reliablity
ca all the way for cheapness
gotta love the 1970s technology in the head of the sr20...
this is a never ending battle...but i say ca18det
juliegotta love the 1970s technology in the head of the sr20...That's nice.
im in no hurry to get it installed and running. if i rush the install, ill overlook something. either way, its still better then a overpriced sr20. 200hp for $2500? ill pass
I paided $450 for 165HP, that's not over priced at all and it's an SR20.
juliegotta love the 1970s technology in the head of the sr20...hahahahahaha
seishukuI paided $450 for 165HP, that's not over priced at all and it's an SR20.
juliethats the non turbo ones thought, which u can turbo for alot less then buying a the DET version, which is always over priced. id love to see a high hp sr20de in a s12Well, hopefully I can get together the money to buy the parts... I've been planning on putting a turbo on my SR20DE, though it won't be that high HP, probably around 225 maybe 250.
should do a N/A project. 220hp out of that motor without boost would be cool
julieshould do a N/A project. 220hp out of that motor without boost would be cooltoo bad he would need a VE head for that..
SR = high flow, weak internals, but great aftermarket.
CA DOHC = a bit less flow, .2 less displacement, but much stronger internals.
A tradeoff. I tend to prefer the stronger internals, I'm a ghetto tuner, but if you tune it right, the SR is a potent engine.
rageedit- seishuku, where'd you get your sr from? thats even cheap for an n/a one, i usually see them go for like 600-800. i wouldnt mind picking one up for 450.Correction, it was $405.
not bad..
i just want the 54c internals
gotta love the 1970s technology in the head of the sr20...Everyone loves to slag the SR head, not sure why, so it has rocker arms, they are there so there is less friction in the valvetrain, not being defensive but i sometimes wonder why people think this is bad and that having a cam lobe on each lifter is good? less friction in your valvetrain is a good thing. I'm told F1 cars generally run Y shaped rockers because of the friction advantage, but i can't confirm this :(.
SR = high flow, weak internals, but great aftermarket.I'm afraid no one has been able to prove that to me, all the local CA18DETs are less reliable, smaller engine = more highly stressed at a certain power output.
CA DOHC = a bit less flow, .2 less displacement, but much stronger internals.
A tradeoff. I tend to prefer the stronger internals, I'm a ghetto tuner, but if you tune it right, the SR is a potent engine.
You guys haven't had long experience with the ca18det's right ??? I love the engine they rev nicely and its compact and nicer valve train setup, but strongeer internals than the sr???
Hipoed ca18dets though the ladder reinforced block is way ahead of the ca18et pissweak blocks,can throw a rod(s) through the block, (hence the number of ex ca18det s13's here with rb20dets in them).
Anyone looking for info could go to my local silvia forum, www.silviansw.com there used to be a few CA18DET diehards on there, several of them with big dollar built motors. These aren't silly kids either, most of them are older blokes (like late 20s not late teens haha) who know what they are doing or get people who know what they are doing to do their work.
All of them run SR20s now though...
If you want to see what a CA can do under 200rwkw there is a bloke called aussiesil80 in SA who has a stock CA with Apexi turbo and remapped ECU (thats it) running 170rwkw and buckets of torque.
It gets drifted often and it seems to go quite nicely.
But as i said don't push it to far.
Here is a promo vid (Dr.Drift tuned rom promo).
16mb CA18DET Remap Promo Video
Anyways when all is said and done, what is your aim and your budget?
Most people will have a biased opinion depending on witch engine they have.
I have neither engine and keep a open minded un biased opinion.
So fare I am going to back up what Nebuchernezzer has already said.
My opinions are based on my own experiences from working with both engines in the performance industry.
Both engines have there good and bad points but if I had to choose between the two the SR is the clear winner.
Ps: Australian Dyno Dynamics dynoââ,¬â,,¢s read lower than the popular American brand dynoââ,¬â,,¢s. This is why Australians some times find the horse power figures quoted by Americans unrealistic. We all have to remember it is relative to what dyno the car is on.
This information was given to me by two well known respected tuners that have tuned cars in both countries. I will not say there names but one of them is a rotory specialist with a couple of world records under his belt. The other is the most respected tuner in South East QLD Australia and one of the most respected tuners in Australia.
Most people will have a biased opinion depending on witch engine they have.To true, and i rather like my SR but i like to think i am unbiased.
Be different, throw the new 350Z motor in.
Neb: F1 engines stopped using rockers, cams & normal valves long ago. It's all pnumatic now. Hard to get a valve to stop bouncing off a cam at 20,000rpm.
There you go, i don't know much about F1 since it bores me to tears in general.
yah man, wrc ftw lol...to bad speed channel dropped wrc coverage...those bastards. They did show some targa newfoundland coverage tho....ahhh, one day i will have my s12 up there...:D
Jeez not this tread again.
lol
maybe there should be a filter so that the words 'ca18' and 'sr20' can't be used together in a thread title :P.
When got my S12, I had all the intentions in the world to get a CA18DET, unfortunately the guys I got it from sold it to me slagged. Tried to dick me, and I got an SR20DET out of them for the same price as my CA18 ($1500). Not happy about it, but there's SO much aftermarket support for the SR20 it's hard to resist. It's a proven engine and a lot of my friends ran them in various versions, FWD and RWD. Problem with both engines is their getting older. It's cheaper to rebuild an SR20 due to the support. Soon though, even these engines will be relics.
AkiraS12not s15 ones
When got my S12, I had all the intentions in the world to get a CA18DET, unfortunately the guys I got it from sold it to me slagged. Tried to dick me, and I got an SR20DET out of them for the same price as my CA18 ($1500). Not happy about it, but there's SO much aftermarket support for the SR20 it's hard to resist. It's a proven engine and a lot of my friends ran them in various versions, FWD and RWD. Problem with both engines is their getting older. It's cheaper to rebuild an SR20 due to the support. Soon though, even these engines will be relics.
rage
not s15 ones
but yes, they've stopped production on the SR's
edit- theres always the QR though. the heads flow better than sr20 heads, not sure on sr20ve heads though. you can destroke them with the qr20 crank
AkiraS12yeah, i hear that too. although, we had a local spec v with a gt28rs on it, and it was killing evos at like 11psi
Not really feelin' the QR, I hear they don't respond well to forced induction. I dunno, give 'em time I suppose.
I'm sorry to say this but any one who says the ca18det is better is just to poor to afford a sr20det(like me).ca18 is a good engine but sr is faster hence why is was in a more expencive model of nissan they new witch would out perform.
s12 doesnt need alot of power to go fast.. so why spend a assload of money on a sr20 when for the price, i can drop in a ca18 with a few upgrades and match or exceed the sr20's power. these are LIGHT CARS, they dont need 400hp. next your gonna say the ka24 boys are too poor to afford a sr20. some of us prefer iron blocks to aluminum and wanna do something different then what EVERYONE with a 240sx is doing. maybe you should think before u fucking post too
julie
s12 doesnt need alot of power to go fast.. so why spend a assload of money on a sr20 when for the price, i can drop in a ca18 with a few upgrades and match or exceed the sr20's power. these are LIGHT CARS, they dont need 400hp. next your gonna say the ka24 boys are too poor to afford a sr20. some of us prefer iron blocks to aluminum and wanna do something different then what EVERYONE with a 240sx is doing. maybe you should think before u fucking post too
notchiskingdude, if you cant put on a VE head, you shouldnt be swapping engines
Damn your hard core into these mothas arnt you but on the contrary I have put some thought into it, Personally I want a sr20de with a sr16ve head or just sr20ve with a RWD tranny. I wish I could even afford the cheap way of it and just buy a used G-20 sr and find a used sr16ve head to swap but that requiers knowlege beyond mine. Mabey just a sr20de and a RWD tranny but I work at safeway so mabey when i get ritch HAHAHA. but seriously that my opinion
yea i was a bit drunk but any way Another thought of mine was a ca16de from a old pulsar(pick an pull 150$) might have some potential (at least more than the ca20) and since there both CA's The trannys might directly swap onto another but i don't know. It might have trouble with the motor mounts because it's in a front wheel drive car I seen people claim it can't be done with some engines. Now I don't care If someone tells me it's not possible or It' wont work but PLEASE don't bash me for thinking. I guess i hurt your feelings by saying the sr is a "better" motor but thats not what i was impling just simply stating something told ten thousand times before. plus I'm an NA lover so why am i even bothering oh that makes me wonder if they make individual throttle bodys for the CA Does any body know?? I would go find a u.s. ca18de for hella cheap much cheaper than shipping one from japan.let the bashing begin!
notchiskingthere only about 1300 for the hole swap and thats shipped to your door.
Damn your hard core into these mothas arnt you but on the contrary I have put some thought into it, Personally I want a sr20de with a sr16ve head or just sr20ve with a RWD tranny. I wish I could even afford the cheap way of it and just buy a used G-20 sr and find a used sr16ve head to swap but that requiers knowlege beyond mine. Mabey just a sr20de and a RWD tranny but I work at safeway so mabey when i get ritch HAHAHA. but seriously that my opinion
p.s. If someone offerd me a ca18det for a good price i would jump on it like woody harrolson
yeah. i paid 1325 for mine.
ca18de pulsar, besides being na, is internally different from the jdm 18det. The na version lacks oil squirters and has different compression...actually, for the 2 years it made it to the states in the pulsar, they changed the compression on the engine prolly 2 or 3 times. I have been told tho that fwd 18dets can be swapped to rwd very easily.
Oh, and tho stock an sr has more power then an 18det, with a couple of small mods such as exhaust, and more boost, an 18det can keep up with an sr. Then throw some cams and pistons in one and you have an real contender. Althou as mentioned by our aussie members reliabilty comes into question...but an s12 imho only needs like 200 to 250hp. Argue with that all you wish...its an light car.
With 1300 I could have a nice ghetto engine making nice power fix all my interior get new rims and tires and still have enough to buy some tequila
Let Me Explain:
1.Drive to pick an pull scout out the nissans and find the common KA24e in about every other car/ find a pulsar with a CA16/18de or even a 200sx turbo with the CA18ET now its a luck of the draw type deal on the engines and thier avalibility.
150$
2.grab the wires because the fuckers take them off and then charge you for them!!
50-200~
3.every little piece the car came with is at a pick n pull just got to get lucky or drive to another one. If you want all new peices you shouldn't drive an s12 or any 80's car for that matter.
25-300~
4.find a nice set of used rims perferably wider than the stock with(no shit)
150-1000+ you decide how much on that one some people care some don't
5.now you can use the remaining 650-1050 without rims to overhaul and mod the juck yard racing engine or put some springs and shocks on there.
Hell you could grab the suspension of all those totaled 240's and still be less then 1300
Of course it aint gonna be pritty or faster then a ca18det equiped car but I didn't use 2 months worth of pay on just the engine. I just made the JDM "budget engine" CA18DET look like way more then it is because it's still 1300 dollars compared to say a black top ~3000+.
So to sum all this babble up I wish could afford a CA18DET and I'm just jelious of all you proud CA18DET powered s12 owners. In a s12 CA18DET is honestly the best fit, in the engine bay and in the power to cost ratio. I would put an sr20 in a 240 or somthing a little bigger because as was so plainly put the s12 is a light little car. But for the people like me with out a good paying job there is still hope of haveing a fast car.
sam31183ca18de pulsar, besides being na, is internally different from the jdm 18det. The na version lacks oil squirters and has different compression...actually, for the 2 years it made it to the states in the pulsar, they changed the compression on the engine prolly 2 or 3 times. I have been told tho that fwd 18dets can be swapped to rwd very easily.yes, the n/a ca18de's also dont have a crank girdle which would aid in revving.
Which is what I like about the SR20DE, it has the crank girdle, the only thing it's missing are the oil squirters and the lower compression.
High compression is a good thing, response is great and you can get good power on less boost.
On 98 octane (oz) a 9.5:1 SR20DE can make over 200rwkw reliably. However the later 10:1 compression DE can only make around 170-180rwkw reliably on our fuel since detonation becomes a big factor.
A turbo CA18DE would be a fun thing, i'm helping a local bloke here turbo his CA18DE S13 using stock DET gear, should be cheap and alot faster then it is now (ie slow as a wet week).
As mentioned before the fwd and rwd CAs are identical in most respects, things like the tb can be swapped from one end of the plenum to the other easily.
Also don't argue CA vs SR, it's like saying my orange is better then your apple, pick whatever suits your taste and budget.
NebuchernezzerHigh compression is a good thing, response is great and you can get good power on less boost.well said i agree
On 98 octane (oz) a 9.5:1 SR20DE can make over 200rwkw reliably. However the later 10:1 compression DE can only make around 170-180rwkw reliably on our fuel since detonation becomes a big factor.
A turbo CA18DE would be a fun thing, i'm helping a local bloke here turbo his CA18DE S13 using stock DET gear, should be cheap and alot faster then it is now (ie slow as a wet week).
As mentioned before the fwd and rwd CAs are identical in most respects, things like the tb can be swapped from one end of the plenum to the other easily.
Also don't argue CA vs SR, it's like saying my orange is better then your apple, pick whatever suits your taste and budget.
Which is also why I plan on turbo'ing my sr20de... Probably run 7PSI on the stock DET maps with the DE hardware (minus the injectors, I'll be using 370CC DET injectors, of course).
I think it should put me around 250BHP? I donno.
seishukuWhich is also why I plan on turbo'ing my sr20de... Probably run 7PSI on the stock DET maps with the DE hardware (minus the injectors, I'll be using 370CC DET injectors, of course).depending on what turbo you use. a t28 would get you thereabouts
I think it should put me around 250BHP? I donno.
Yep, that's why WRC cars run turbo'd 11:1 motors, of course they have high octane fuel too.
I was thinking a stock S13 T25 or a brand new GT25, since the T28 seems to flow a little more than my application, but I might look into it. It doesn't help that I've been having to find my own info and stuff, and no one really wants to help answer my noob turboing questions.