Sr20det or ca18det

im sure wrc cars also have motec engine mangagement  

it might be a little hard to hit 250whp with a t25

edit- you said bhp, that might be more easily attainable. keep in mind that you'll be running the turbo hard, so it might be better to actually get the t28 and run it at a lower boost.

True, but T25's are good to about 12PSI aren't they? So I could be well below where it maxes out, and I can't really run any higher with out dropping out timing or running higher octane (I will be running 93 pump, with out ethanol).

So basically:
DE ignition (distributor)
DET injectors (370CC)
DET fuel and timing maps
T25 @ 7PSI (stock for an S13 SR20DET)
2.5" exhaust (only because I don't want to buy larger yet)
Small side mount intercooler (maybe)

But do I really need an intercooler? The pressure levels are so low, could I maybe just get away with running dual fans on the rad and have those come on sooner (trip is set at 195 F right now with only one fan), and run an oil cooler?

well this issue has been around for a wile we might as well put sr s12 against the ca s12 and see what happens

seishukuTrue, but T25's are good to about 12PSI aren't they? So I could be well below where it maxes out, and I can't really run any higher with out dropping out timing or running higher octane (I will be running 93 pump, with out ethanol).

So basically:
DE ignition (distributor)
DET injectors (370CC)
DET fuel and timing maps
T25 @ 7PSI (stock for an S13 SR20DET)
2.5" exhaust (only because I don't want to buy larger yet)
Small side mount intercooler (maybe)

But do I really need an intercooler? The pressure levels are so low, could I maybe just get away with running dual fans on the rad and have those come on sooner (trip is set at 195 F right now with only one fan), and run an oil cooler?

Given the higher compression in the DE motor i'd be advising half decent intercooling, and failing that any intercooling is better then none.  The stock DET maps work just fine though (98ron fuel) i have run 1 bar on a DE with turbo and DET maps, even spiked to 20psi once due to a wastegate actuator failure and it didn't ping.
If it's the street it won't need it to much but i wouldn't like to take it around the track with only a stock S13 core, they are crap.
A stock SR20 turbo (T25G) will pull around 180kw at rear wheels (240bhp) at it's limit, they will run 16psi or so but don't go beyond that, i run mine at around 14-15psi or so (1 bar) and it's fine.  Go to far and you'll just make heat.
As a guide my old SR20DE with T28, extractor manifold and 3" exhaust made 160kw at the rear wheels (215hp or so) on only 9psi (bearing in mind that that was on a MDX dyno, different brands will give you different figures, this is why alot of Australians are disbellieveing of US power figures because they are often taken from a DynoJet whereas we are used to the DynoDynamics machines which give a lower number).  The DE with 9.5:1 compression, a decent turbo and cooling and some good maps (mapped in real time most likely) can pull over 200rwkw safely (like 270hp i think).
A T28 or larger is a better bet since you can run it at lower boost for a given volume of air and have a cooler charge.  If you can get a an S14 or S15 turbo they are all good, don't worry about BB to much, it makes next to no difference in the real world.  Much better for the motor then running a T25G hard and getting lots of hot air, also the T28 doesn't run out of puff in the top end like the T25G does.

well this issue has been around for a wile we might as well put sr s12 against the ca s12 and see what happens

wanna buy a t25 for cheap?

NebuchernezzerGiven the higher compression in the DE motor i'd be advising half decent intercooling, and failing that any intercooling is better then none.  The stock DET maps work just fine though (98ron fuel) i have run 1 bar on a DE with turbo and DET maps, even spiked to 20psi once due to a wastegate actuator failure and it didn't ping.
If it's the street it won't need it to much but i wouldn't like to take it around the track with only a stock S13 core, they are crap.
A stock SR20 turbo (T25G) will pull around 180kw at rear wheels (240bhp) at it's limit, they will run 16psi or so but don't go beyond that, i run mine at around 14-15psi or so (1 bar) and it's fine.  Go to far and you'll just make heat.
As a guide my old SR20DE with T28, extractor manifold and 3" exhaust made 160kw at the rear wheels (215hp or so) on only 9psi (bearing in mind that that was on a MDX dyno, different brands will give you different figures, this is why alot of Australians are disbellieveing of US power figures because they are often taken from a DynoJet whereas we are used to the DynoDynamics machines which give a lower number).  The DE with 9.5:1 compression, a decent turbo and cooling and some good maps (mapped in real time most likely) can pull over 200rwkw safely (like 270hp i think).
A T28 or larger is a better bet since you can run it at lower boost for a given volume of air and have a cooler charge.  If you can get a an S14 or S15 turbo they are all good, don't worry about BB to much, it makes next to no difference in the real world.  Much better for the motor then running a T25G hard and getting lots of hot air, also the T28 doesn't run out of puff in the top end like the T25G does.
You mean race them?  Like i said before apples and oranges, how fast the cars will go will depend on the power and torque they make, and alot of other factors besides just the power plants.
Generally the SR will be making more power and torque unless the CA has more mods to make up for it's smaller capacity so It's impractical and not very informative.
As a rule of thumb an SR will make more power more reliably then a CA even if thats just due to it's larger size, simple facts of life.
The rest of the choice is down to taste and cost and application and these things being so personal it's impossible to compare them.  What one person wants is not what another wants.
Lets leave the CA/SR thing alone and keep talking about turboing NA engines, it's far more interesting Smiley.

wanna buy a t25 for cheap?

how cheap julie? and how are the wheels? if theyre trashed i dont want it.

ragehow cheap julie? and how are the wheels? if theyre trashed i dont want it.

NebuchernezzerGiven the higher compression in the DE motor i'd be advising half decent intercooling, and failing that any intercooling is better then none.  The stock DET maps work just fine though (98ron fuel) i have run 1 bar on a DE with turbo and DET maps, even spiked to 20psi once due to a wastegate actuator failure and it didn't ping.
If it's the street it won't need it to much but i wouldn't like to take it around the track with only a stock S13 core, they are crap.
A stock SR20 turbo (T25G) will pull around 180kw at rear wheels (240bhp) at it's limit, they will run 16psi or so but don't go beyond that, i run mine at around 14-15psi or so (1 bar) and it's fine.  Go to far and you'll just make heat.
As a guide my old SR20DE with T28, extractor manifold and 3" exhaust made 160kw at the rear wheels (215hp or so) on only 9psi (bearing in mind that that was on a MDX dyno, different brands will give you different figures, this is why alot of Australians are disbellieveing of US power figures because they are often taken from a DynoJet whereas we are used to the DynoDynamics machines which give a lower number).  The DE with 9.5:1 compression, a decent turbo and cooling and some good maps (mapped in real time most likely) can pull over 200rwkw safely (like 270hp i think).
A T28 or larger is a better bet since you can run it at lower boost for a given volume of air and have a cooler charge.  If you can get a an S14 or S15 turbo they are all good, don't worry about BB to much, it makes next to no difference in the real world.  Much better for the motor then running a T25G hard and getting lots of hot air, also the T28 doesn't run out of puff in the top end like the T25G does.

Make sure you get the right wastegate can on them though, my mates GT28RS has a 1 bar can so unless you can run 1 bar to bad.
1 bar from a GT28RS is to much for stock SR20DET injectors, he made 201rwkw on one bar with step HKS step one cams and no other mods.
Pushed the injectors waaay to close to the limit though (180rwkw is about the limit of the S13 SR20DET injectors), engine is now dead by the way haha.  If you were to run that turbo you could probably do 1 bar on the DE however you'd want good intercooling, larger injectors and probably an oil cooler as well (i found temps on a DE+T to go up quite fast and i ran a 19 row cooler).
Best bang for your buck is probably an S14 T28, cheap, it'll do the job and it can push 190-200rwkw if you really want it to, save your GT28RS money for more important things like the intercooler, oil cooler, bigger fuel pump and so on.

True. So the stock DE bottom/pistons can hold 1 bar then? I was under the impression that it could only take around 10PSI max.

Isn't the stock S14 T28 wastegate set at 9PSI? Won't that be too much, or will that net me around S14 DET power plus a little extra (like any DET owner would if they increased the boost)?

Guys in oz have run 1-1.2 bar on stock S13 SR20DE engines, it's all in your tune (and your fuel to).  Over 200rwkw is possible with a level of reliability to (some of these engines have run 1.1 bar for 18 months or more).
If your tune sucks then yeah you can't expect much.
If it was my motor and i was running a T28 on stock SR20DET mapping i'd probabbly run 10-12psi, get the mixtures checked on dyno and choose your boost from there.  Like i said before i've spiked to 20psi on a DE with T28BB after i lost the wastegate hose and it didn't ping or explode into pieces so thats a good sign.  I'd say an S14 turbo would hold around 9psi with 3" exhaust, a bit less with a 2.5" exhaust.
Check out www.silviawa.com forums for more info from people who have done these mods with quite some success.

julies12 doesnt need alot of power to go fast.. so why spend a assload of money on a sr20 when for the price, i can drop in a ca18 with a few upgrades and match or exceed the sr20's power. these are LIGHT CARS, they dont need 400hp. next your gonna say the ka24 boys are too poor to afford a sr20. some of us prefer iron blocks to aluminum and wanna do something different then what EVERYONE with a 240sx is doing. maybe you should think before u fucking post too

Ah he's catching on, thats why these debates are a little silly to have on a forum, it has to go on within the mind of whoever is planning the swap so they can ask specific questions not 'which is better'.

Here's my take on it... it's an awesome car, all the engines are Nissan, therefore I love every single one. It's all a matter of preference and saying someone is a "ricer" or whatever you kids say these days because they pick an engine is just retarded. If you're a Nissan fan, you love ALL that is Nissan.

Put a 1J in it Tongue

2 litre 4 cylinders in order of best to worst

FJ20
4G63
input 10 other 4 cylinder engines THEN
SR20

SR over CA though purely because of capacity

NebuchernezzerGuys in oz have run 1-1.2 bar on stock S13 SR20DE engines, it's all in your tune (and your fuel to).  Over 200rwkw is possible with a level of reliability to (some of these engines have run 1.1 bar for 18 months or more).
If your tune sucks then yeah you can't expect much.
If it was my motor and i was running a T28 on stock SR20DET mapping i'd probabbly run 10-12psi, get the mixtures checked on dyno and choose your boost from there.  Like i said before i've spiked to 20psi on a DE with T28BB after i lost the wastegate hose and it didn't ping or explode into pieces so thats a good sign.  I'd say an S14 turbo would hold around 9psi with 3" exhaust, a bit less with a 2.5" exhaust.
Check out www.silviawa.com forums for more info from people who have done these mods with quite some success.

Hey Nezz... Just a few more questions:
What about my head gasket? Is that going to be an issue, or is it the same as the DET's and will hold a fair amount?

And

What about the FPR, I couldn't really find any solid info, but most people say they are differen't between the DE and DET. Something tells me they aren't, because of the way a fuel pressure regulator works, but are they really the same, or not?

difference between the ca18 and sr20 in displacement is about 7oz. about the size of a urine test cup. hmmmmm

and i dont like everything about nissan. i hate how they make the sr20s out of aluminum and it ends up weighting slightly less then a iron block. i hate how they dont sell skylines in the usa, i hate how people expect you to pay 4000 or more for a 15yr old car like a s13 just because its popular. i hate how the s12 has no fuckin aftermarket, i hate how nissan ruined the 200sx title in the mid 90s, i hate how the pathfinder tripled in size. i hate that we didnt get the s15 platform in this country, i REALLY hate that they stopped making the z32 chassis and replaced it with the horrid looking 350z

Geez Julie, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel...

julie is secretly in love with hondas

bullshit. only respectable honda is the s2000

nsx?

nope

There are so many 2L engines that perform in different ways it is almost imposable to say witch is the best to worse accurately. Every one has there opinion on witch are the best (Including myself). I think the SR20 is not a great engine but it is definitely not a bad engine.
Instead of pitching the CA18DET vs SR20DET, Why don't we look at comparing the CA18DET to other 1.8L engines. Like the Mazda 1.8L BP turbo out of the 323 Familia or the Lancia Delta 1.8L DOHC 16V turbo.
 These are a fairer comparison.
This sux for us Nissan lovers but both of these engines will walk all over the CA18DET as far as performance is concerned. I don't hate CA18DET's as they are a good cheep and easy option for S12's and other light cars. But even when compared to performance engines with the same capacity they are not a supper performer.

theres a 1.8 turbo vw engine too

Sooo this thread is still going ay....
Instead of winging and whining about how hard life is without whatever car you wish you could buy why not work with what you have...(yes i know you are so get on with it Tongue)

And just to annoy everyone i'd rather like a DC2R in my driveway, hating cars because you don't want to drive one is kind of wierd you know, do you people have some kind of repressed anger Tongue.

i stand by what i said. why would nissan import the finest car ever made to our country? cause theyd make money? course not. that would make too much sense.

id trade my s12 in a heartbeat for something better btw

Well thats the thing, someone trained to work that out weighed up all the information available and decided that no they would make more money doing it the way they did.  For better or worse Nissan want to make $$ off new cars.  Nissan could care less about the second hand market, sure turbos might be popular now but in the early 90s were they?  Especially since a large percentage of the people that want to buy them don't generally have the cash.  Now times have changed and alot of younger people can afford a turbocharged car new, and may well be buying new but back in the day the market may well have not existed.  The real reasons are probably forgotten but i'm sure someone thought about it quite alot back in the day.
Also remember that Cal emmissions laws might have strangled off more of the higher powered cars to (did these laws exist in the 90s?), they still do strangle your market cars a bit, for example the USDM STi has 2.5L to make the same power as the 2.0L does in the rest of the world etc.
In Australia for example the rise of turbocharged imports only came 5 years or so after alot of the most popular cars were actually made when they cars became second hand.  Australia is a traditionally V8 market (probably much like the US) and until fairly recently the predominant performance cars in oz all wore 5.0 badges.

Nebuchernezzerdo you people have some kind of repressed anger Tongue.

im not american

Of course we do, we're American.

im not american

i import my water

seishuku Hey Nezz... Just a few more questions:
What about my head gasket? Is that going to be an issue, or is it the same as the DET's and will hold a fair amount?

And

What about the FPR, I couldn't really find any solid info, but most people say they are differen't between the DE and DET. Something tells me they aren't, because of the way a fuel pressure regulator works, but are they really the same, or not?

sam31183I would imagine that the turbocharged engine would require more fuel.
 
 The s15 is an ok car...but if i owned an s14 of an s15 I would have to swap in an rb25 or 26...they just look like heavier cars to me and i cant see an sr being able to power one adequatly...but thats the way my minds eye percieves them. An s13 for me is fine with an sr or 18det depending on its year...same with the s12. The s14 and s15 to me just appear bigger to me.

Oz S14 200SX powered by an SR20DET with GT28RS running 20psi, Front mount, chipped ECU, injectors, exhaust and fuel pump =  286rwhp AU and 12.6 ET's @ 113mph.

But i'm all for a RB26 in a S15, Yeah baby.

The s15 is an ok car...but if i owned an s14 of an s15 I would have to swap in an rb25 or 26...they just look like heavier cars to me and i cant see an sr being able to power one adequatly

NebuchernezzerLOL They might look that way but S12/S13/14/15 are roughly the same size and weight didn't increase drastically with models (stock power went up with later model SRs to)

260-280BHP ON THE CA18DET is the ideal choice all round as at this point you are still on lowish boost,stock internals are still really safe.STD injectors etc and best of all you can still use a road clutch which is cheap.

NebuchernezzerLOL They might look that way but S12/S13/14/15 are roughly the same size and weight didn't increase drastically with models (stock power went up with later model SRs to)
SR is quite adequate for 99.9% of people.
RB swaps are only common in the S13 in oz since it's the only one of the bunch that can be had with either an NA engine or the CA, there is a bloke who drifts at my club who swapped out his CA18DET for a 13B, he was getting sick of breaking the CA.
It's very very rare (although not unheard of) to see an engine swap in an S14 or S15 here since it's far cheaper to chase your target power output (and really not many people want more then 200-250rwkw) using the original engine then it is to swap another engine in.  SR in S series chassis is bolt on central after all and since you don't need to open the engine up until after 250rwkw or so that keeps your costs down alot.  Alot of people still go full built engines for reliability though.
I have seen an S15 with RB26DETT somewhere though, i think it was a show car.