S12 Grand Prix with the FJ20E(T?)!!!

Hello,

A mate of mine got a S12 Grand Prix Silvia with the FJ20E-engine in it!!






This year we want to upgrade his car a bit! :cool:

Nowhere in Europe the FJ20ET is ever sold in a Nissan, but fortunately we found the FJ20ET-engine on a junkyard in Holland. (they ordered a SR20DET engine, but unfortunately they got this one from Japan!) Too bad for us! :D

Before we do the engine-swap, we first are looking for some parts, like a FMIC, Apexi AFC to control the fuel and maybe a stronger gearbox to handle the 200+hp. And anybody knows how to find a LSD? Does an S13 or S14 Diff fit on the S12?

We also like to lower the car a bit, can anybody tell me where we can buy lowering springs for the S12?

And his rear-spoiler is worn-out :mad: , so we like to get a new one!! I saw that the most S12 on this forum has a nice "big" spoiler, is this a standard spoiler in the UK? and more important, does anybody has some spoiler for sale?

Cheers:) ,

Kevin

(I also have posted this topic on the UK-forum)

Wait, let me get this straight -- you want to swap out the FJ20ET for an SR20DET?

*slaps forehead* WOW I hope I misunderstood!

KevinHello,

A mate of mine got a S12 Grand Prix Silvia with the FJ20E-engine in it!!

fortunately we found the FJ20ET-engine on a junkyard in Holland. (they ordered a SR20DET engine, but unfortunately they got this one from Japan!) Too bad for us! :D

Yes, I think the same.

OK heres some help from AUSTRALIA :D (the luckey country :biggrin: )

LSD: Avalible from a guy in Adillade check the aus forums, there on there somwhere.

and u wont need a bodykit

i think Fantasy does some gear for the Fj20et aswell, ask him, he's on these forums somwhere...

Yes,where gonna swap the FJ20E for the FJ20ET-engine! :biggrin:

The FJ20ET-engine is never sold in a Nissan in Europe. The junkyard ordered engines from Japan, they ordered the SR20DET engine, but they got the FJ20ET by mistake! So we where very very very very lucky to find a FJ20ET-engine here in Holland! :biggrin:

HansYes, I think the same.

that is an awesome car. i love those flares

This story reminds me of a time I ordered Pizza. Yes, Pizza. I ordered a Hawaiian style Pizza sans the Pineapple (I didn't know it was Hawaiian style at the time). I person taking my order said to me "you sure you don't want pineapple with that?" I told him I was sure. He looked at me with this weird look and said "okay, if your sure." He then walked into the kitchen to give the order. I minuet later I hear a shout from the kitchen, "WHAT!? HE DIDN'T ORDER PINEAPPLE!?"

Sure enough he Pizza just didn't seem complete, and the next time I ordered pineapple.

What does this have to do with anything? Well..

Those Japanese probably saw the order and then said, "Okay, one SR20DET for… an RS12 grand prix. WHAT! THEY DIDN'T ORDER AN FJ!?"

This story reminds me of a time I ordered Pizza. Yes, Pizza. I ordered a Hawaiian style Pizza sans the Pineapple (I didn't know it was Hawaiian style at the time). I person taking my order said to me "you sure you don't want pineapple with that?" I told him I was sure. He looked at me with this weird look and said "okay, if you're sure." He then walked into the kitchen to give the order. I minuet later I hear a shout from the kitchen, "WHAT!? HE DIDN'T ORDER PINEAPPLE!?"

Sure enough the Pizza just didn't seem complete, and the next time I ordered pineapple.

What does this have to do with anything? Well..

Those Japanese probably saw the order and then said, "Okay, one SR20DET for… an RS12 grand prix. WHAT! THEY DIDN'T ORDER AN FJ!?"

KevinHans,

You live in Belgium? Am I right that you'd your Silvia's for sale a while ago?

Greetings,
Kevin

TheXevThose Japanese probably saw the order and then said, "Okay, one SR20DET for… an RS12 grand prix.  WHAT! THEY DIDN'T ORDER AN FJ!?"

Yea, FJs are t3h PwNz0rZ of all engines.

I WILL be the owner of a S12 Grand Prix sometime in my life... I just need the money to import it, and find someone willing to part with their S12 GP

Can someone move this topic to FJ20-tech? laugh.gif

Update:

In the past months we bought some parts for the swap:

Turboboost-gauge
Apexi SAFC
Forge BOV
Clutch-disc (the original was worn out)
New spark plugs
4 meters off 3" pipe with bends for the exhaust
Supra Intercooler
2 stainless steel T3-flanges
(this because we must replace the turbo on another spot because otherwise the turbo would hit the steering rack. We are going to make a J-pipe so that the turbo would be located near the rocker-cover in the front).
Lowering springs

And maybe we buy another S12 FJ20 next week for 200euro's for spare parts. This because the gearbox we now have is a bit worn out.

done

TheXev @ Apr 13 2006, 03:08 PM
This story reminds me of a time I ordered Pizza. Yes, Pizza. I ordered a Hawaiian style Pizza sans the Pineapple (I didn't know it was Hawaiian style at the time). I person taking my order said to me "you sure you don't want pineapple with that?" I told him I was sure. He looked at me with this weird look and said "okay, if you're sure." He then walked into the kitchen to give the order. I minuet later I hear a shout from the kitchen, "WHAT!? HE DIDN'T ORDER PINEAPPLE!?"

Sure enough the Pizza just didn't seem complete, and the next time I ordered pineapple.
What does this have to do with anything? Well..

Those Japanese probably saw the order and then said, "Okay, one SR20DET for… an RS12 grand prix. WHAT! THEY DIDN'T ORDER AN FJ!?"

Kevin @ Jul 16 2006, 04:24 PM
Can someone move this topic to FJ20-tech? laugh.gif
Update:

In the past months we bought some parts for the swap:

Turboboost-gauge
Apexi SAFC
Forge BOV
Clutch-disc (the original was worn out)
New spark plugs
4 meters off 3" pipe with bends for the exhaust
Supra Intercooler
2 stainless steel T3-flanges
(this because we must replace the turbo on another spot because otherwise the turbo would hit the steering rack. We are going to make a J-pipe so that the turbo would be located near the rocker-cover in the front).
Lowering springs

And maybe we buy another S12 FJ20 next week for 200euro's for spare parts. This because the gearbox we now have is a bit worn out.

CallaroSX @ Jul 19 2006, 05:42 PM
just wondering but where did you get your lowering springs? sorry but i dont know much about the fj20et motors. but damn is that a nice looking car you have!

DOOD you have to put some badass offset wheels on that w00t2.gif

Update:

Today we started with the engine-swap. w00t2.gif

We get the FJ20E-engine and the gearbox out of the Grand Prix.
After that we swapped the starter,steering pump, injectorrail, etc etc.

We found out that the FJ20ET has a knock-sensor and the FJ20E hasn't.
Also the ignition is different, we swapped the FJ20E-ignition on the FJ20ET.

It seems that the injectors are all the same, a little bit strange because the NA FJ20 has 143hp and the ET has 190hp. huh.gif

The ET has EGR and the E hasn't

We gave the ET a new clutch-disc and bolted the gearbox on the engine.
Now it's ready to put the FJ20ET into the Grand Prix, we'll do that tomorrow cool.gif

Pics come hopefully later today...

Cheers!

Kevin @ Aug 1 2006, 06:49 PM
Update:

Today we started with the engine-swap. w00t2.gif

We get the FJ20E-engine and the gearbox out of the Grand Prix.
After that we swapped the starter,steering pump, injectorrail, etc etc.

We found out that the FJ20ET has a knock-sensor and the FJ20E hasn't.
Also the ignition is different, we swapped the FJ20E-ignition on the FJ20ET.

It seems that the injectors are all the same, a little bit strange because the NA FJ20 has 143hp and the ET has 190hp. huh.gif

The ET has EGR and the E hasn't

We gave the ET a new clutch-disc and bolted the gearbox on the engine.
Now it's ready to put the FJ20ET into the Grand Prix, we'll do that tomorrow cool.gif

Pics come hopefully later today...

Cheers!

Dude, i have never messed with FJs, but we just swapped a KA24DE into my buddies 240 from a KA24E and if you dont have the computer, and the COMPLETE wiring harness, it wont run.. I dont know what i would do if i were you, but i would defenitely get the computer and harness, including the chassis harness..

VEGIE @ Aug 2 2006, 11:15 AM
the injectors are NOT the same! ET injectors are 375cc and non turbo i cant remember, but they are smaller.

the ET wont run properly on the E injection as it wont retard the timing on boost!
these motors also dont have egr, knock sensors or exhaust oxy sensors...

the euro and NZ FJ20e motors run basically a fuel only computer, and the japanese ones run computer controlled ignition as well, like the ET motors.

what computer do you intend to run??? the loom you have i think only has one plug into the computer, where the turbo loom has three plugs and a completely different computer.

your running a big risk running it on the E ignition, especially if you leave the vacuum advance connected as the timing wont be controlled properly...

good luck, you might need it!!!

Another day of nice work! smile2.gif smile2.gif

We assembled the turbo and started with the intercooler.
We use the Supra intercooler and the piping is almost ready now.

And some other things we did today, put back the radiator, fans, battery etc.

Pics will follow.... w00t2.gif w00t2.gif

Awesome, hopefully it will driving around soon. cool.gif

Some pics smile2.gif smile2.gif smile2.gif

Next week we go further with the piping and custom made downpipe.

The ET-enjectors are fixed now, a company did it for us in an ultrasonic bath.








Without this the project is impossible! laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Short update:

We made the oil-feed and oil-return line.
And we have almost finished the intercooler piping.

The original plan was to use the Apexi AFC to modify the airflow-signal for the bigger ET-injectors (we use the E-computer).
But the Apexi AFC didn't work with the Flap-type airflow-sensor because the signal of the Flap is between 5,0Volt when Idlying and 7,0Volt when fully opened. And the Apexi only can modify voltages below the 5.0Volt.

So we put the FJ20E-injectors (220cc) back in the engine and the engine works well now!
Only when were going to drive under boost there will be a shortage off fuel. We gonna solve this with an extra injector (5th-injector) just before the throttle.
This extra injector will only add fuel when driving with boost.
(I did this 5th injector also with my turboed SR20DE-engine and with my SR20 it worked perfectly).

Next week we hope to complete the 3"-exhaust and intercoolerpiping.

First off, nice progress on the car! Second, the 5th injector plan is great, but (personally) it would probably be just a slightly better idea to go with 4 large injectors. I'd go for something around the 400's.

But eh, your project. And my $.02

adding injectors is old school tech. i've recieved two CA18DET intercooler piping kits with extra injectors welded just before the throttle body. it isn't so common anymore now that the technology is able to handle larger primary injectors. from what I understand additional fuel injectors was common practice in the early 90's when early engine manangement wasn't able to provide precise enough control over enormous injectors at idle and off throttle. I've seen quite afew pictures of manifolds with 4 additional injectors (one on each runner). Basically run two sets of 300cc injectors and you effectively have a 600cc injector that has better control at low flow levels.

I have 2 standard FJ20ET computers if you would like to buy one. $100 AUD each. One is from a DR30 the other from a S12 RS-X. I also have a butchered S12 RS-X ECU loom that you can have with the computer.
I cut all the injector plugs off and the dizzy plug but with your N/A loom and the turbo loom you should be able to make one good turbo loom out of the two.

In my opinion this is still not doing the FJ20ET any justice nor is it doing it correctly.
Do your self a favor and spend the extra cash and get your self a fully programmable ignition and fuel computer. Then get the car tuned by a professional.
FJ20ET's have a lot of power to unleash but they won't do it with the standard computer. Basically the flap style air flow meter is inaccurate under any conditions other than in its standard environment. And even if it was not inaccurate it is two restrictive to pass enough air to make efficient power much over 200rwhp.

FJ20ET will make around 220rwhp to 240rwhp with an intercooler and programmable computer. The injectors will top out at around 240rwhp. The turbo will already be out of its efficiency range at 240rwhp. You can push it to 260+rwhp but it will be making some crazy heat.

Cheers,

Ricky.

I also have a standard S12 RS-X air flow meter that will bolt into the standard location in your car. You can have that with the computer as well if you go down that path.

Thanks for your reply's, I'll give an answer tomorrow! Very interesting stuff you talked about!

Here are another few pics

Very nice. I want an FJ crying2.gif

The AFM's are also different. So you'll need one of them too.
The part number on the ECU and AFM is R2200 on the Turbo models

Fantasy @ Aug 25 2006, 11:12 PM
I have 2 standard FJ20ET computers if you would like to buy one. $100 AUD each. One is from a DR30 the other from a S12 RS-X. I also have a butchered S12 RS-X ECU loom that you can have with the computer.

I also have a standard S12 RS-X air flow meter that will bolt into the standard location in your car. You can have that with the computer as well if you go down that path.

Itll be easier, cheaper just getting the stuff off ricksta. Going the sr20 route can be done. But you need to modify (change) the plate inside the dizzy so you can use it as a crank angle sensor, you have to make a plate (laser cut) so that it would send out the same crank angle signal as the stock sr20 CAS. Not worth it. For 60 euros you have the cpu and loom of ricky and it wont cost more than 12 euros to send (i get stuff sent to me from australia all the time (to france)).

But youre right, stay conservative because as soon as you go aftermarket cpu, then comes new fuel pump, bigger turbo, new fuel injectors, clutch, gearbox no long after, new intercooler and there goes 3000 euros :s

Kevin @ Aug 28 2006, 10:08 AM
Very interesting, can you e-mail me at [email removed] for the price for the S12-RSX ECU, Loom en AFM?

We know the FJ20ET has very much potential, but the first year we are satisfied with 220 - 250hp (on the cranck).
The FJ20ET-ecu has a few advantages, is has lambda-feedback, knock-sensor and we can use the FJ20ET injectors.

A fully programmable ECU is above budget for the next year(s), so were looking for the best alternative!

Another idea was to use the SR20DET ECU + SR20DET Loom + SR20DET sensors. Then we have a knock-sensor, lambda-sensor, bigger AFM. We think this will also work, but we don't know if the SR20DET-ignition fits the FJ20ET.

Keep u guys informed!

Cheers,
Kevin

Lookin good

You have some interesting ways of going about things.
No doubt you will learn alot though and in the end have a fast reliable car smile.gif.

First Off I love this car I wish I could have a grand prix over here, And congrats on finding an FJ20ET to put into it but I do agree with alot of stuff said above and also

DITCH the supra intercooler, That POS is known as one of the worst OEM intercoolers on the planet. It has around 3psi of pressure drop at 7psi of boost..... that almost half your boost gone and it gets worse the higher you go. plus the way you've run the piping is dumb and I know its because of that intercooler, What you need is a OEM mitsubishi sterion intercooler MUCH more efficient small enough to mount in the grill and easier to plumb. Plus it uses more conventional endtanks from one side to another
here is what they look like
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/te27-coroll...sspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Perfect-Mit...sspagenameZWDVW

Update:

The exhaust is ready till the rear-axle, we'll finish the exhaust next week, then we can finally drive the first meters with the FJ20ET powered S12! smile2.gif

Thanks for all the reply's, we also now a bigger turbo, better intercooler, aftermarket ECU is much better then what we have now, but this will make this project much more expensive.

Our major concern is that the engine is good shape, because we don't know if the condition is good or bad. We think the engine hasn't run for the last 10 or 15 years. We only now the engine is from Japan and there was written on the rockercover that the engine has run 37.000kilometres. (a bit low for a 22 year old engine).

And before we spend all our money to upgrade the engine, we are conservite and first wait if the engine is in good condition. Because if it's not then we have to do a engine-overhaul.

Last week we put the ET-injectors back in and we adjusted the spring of the AFM and the engine looked to run fine. But again, to set up the engine fuel-management, we have to drive with the car. Than we can see if we can run the engine write with:
1. ET-injectors and adjusting the AFM
2. ET-injectors with the extra injectors and adjusting the AFM
3. E-injectors with the extra injectors

And if we can buy the ET-ECU and ET-AFM, this option will be the best for now we think, because the then have the lambda and knock-sensor.

When the engine prooved to be reliable then we will go for a bigger intercooler and then we're going to look for more power.

Keep u guys informed!

Cheers,
Kevin

My Japanese inlaws in Japan had an 84 civic until they bought a new car this year, (plenty of money just couldn't be bothered with cars). They didn't drive much just down to the shops, (everything is pretty close in Japan), or took trains and planes for longer trips. So it only had 40000klm's on the clock in all that time.So it does happen but yes the 37000K's is unlikely in an FJ powered car, but you never know.

Take the front plate off the head and replace the timing chain tentiner with a Mazda 1300cc engine that came in the RWD 323's
Here is the link to fix the rattles

http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7895

DATTO @ Sep 21 2006, 11:13 AM
Take the front plate off the head and replace the timing chain tentiner with a Mazda 1300cc engine that came in the RWD 323's
Here is the link to fix the rattles

http://www.club-s12.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=7895

After 10 hours off trying, the first time the engine started! smile2.gif

Movie: w00t2.gif

http://media.putfile.com/FJ20ET-powered-S1...ter-engine-swap

The bottom tensioner can cause rattles aswell , But usually only on start up.
You have to remove the whole timing cover to get at the bottom one .
What I did was make sure that the bottom tensioner didn't foul on anything by useing a collar around the shaft of the bottom tensioner.
So with the 2 tensioners (mazda ratchet type and the collar on the bottom one) tightened up the engine is quiet as a mouse
another thing that will need attention is the valve springs
they are rated at 50lb and smash into the valve stem seals at top end rpm. I used 90lb crow valve springs. I now don't get any valve bounce all the way to 9300rpm. where on the old valve springs, My FJ would only just rev to 8000 rpm.
Just a thought.

Kevin @ Sep 21 2006, 08:44 PM
After 10 hours off trying, the first time the engine started! smile2.gif

Movie: w00t2.gif

http://media.putfile.com/FJ20ET-powered-S1...ter-engine-swap

Flynlow @ Sep 22 2006, 12:04 AM
Haha nice! Congrats man, I love the smoking engine bay biggrin.gif . I'm assuming that was WD-40 or oil burning off?

hey im from denmark and i have the grand prix, i got my FJ20ET motor from japan last week... nice