CA18ET vs. CA20E

Alright. I have a couple of options, and I was looking for some club input. As the title states, I was thinking of originally doing a CA20ET conversion, but after that write-up by Yellow, I'm kind of intimidated. I'm aiming for 190-200 rwhp out of whatever I do. I do have a budget of like $1000, but hope to do it for less. I'm looking at a CA18ET for $70 US w/o an intake mani. Ease of installation is also a factor, as I would like to have a maybe a week long (maybe that's not realistic, I don't know), and I'm no excellent mechanic, although I could probably do most anything with my dad and neighbor's help, but again, time's an issue. Anyway, please incluse a pro/con post.

I hope this is a good place to post this, but I didn't want to put it any one engine fourm. I have an '87 hatchback, US spec.
Thanks,
Shawn

If you're looking for about 200hp with $1000, then the best thing to do would be to sell the S12, and with that, look for about a $1500 mustang GT. But, if you want to keep the S12 and have access to a machine shop, you could maybe put together a 200HP CA18et for about $700, but you would need to buy a turbo car as well for the electronics (unless you want to try to make it all work with the N/A ecu). The CA20et build would end up costing about the same as the CA18 build up because you would still need a turbo parts car, except you would be stuck with a weaker block (but who knows if just 200hp would stress it).

A 60 trim or larger t3 (or a t28 for those that don't realize it's the same), should be good for 200hp at low boost levels (15 psi or so). The stock components on the Turbo model can handle that. You will not be able to make 200hp on a stock T2 turbo, a t25 could maybe do it, but you would be spinning the hell out of it. Keep in mind that you would also have to replace the clutch to hold 200hp as well. I'm making about that much with my setup and my Centerforce Dual Friction clutch slips pretty bad when it gets below 80 degrees outside. I'm not trying to discourage you, but there is a lot of work involved in making a car increase it's output 100% over stock. Also, your CA20 intake manifold should bolt to the CA18 if you pick it up, since the head is the same, some of the folks on the board are running the CA20 manifold on their CA18 cars and could help you out with that.

It took about 2 months to swap all the stuff out on my car, but that was only working on it one day a week for those weeks, so you could probably put all that together in a week as long as you had all your parts there.

Come on guys, I need some input!

i think you need a CA18ET for 200whp, and you can use a CA20E intake manifold which will make a front mount IC easier. You will require one for 200whp. I dont think tho you can do this for sub $1K.

Thats what I think. What I know is that you have alot more reading to do ;)

CA20 S12 + $1000 + Ford 302 HO = 200hp 200sx

Yes and fitting in a ford V8 is cheap how?

He just needs an IC, a T28, and a fuel pump. He's not looking for more than 200whp.

And besides, for the money spent sticking a ford POS in an S12, you could run any number of superior nissan swaps.

Ford 302, Blasphemy. Sadly true though, I think I'm getting close to the 200hp mark but without a dyno who can tell? Mind you if I hadn't built a lot of my own parts it would have cost me well over 1000$ but this site is a great resource for DIY info, I saved myself almost 1000$. BTW I ran my mothers 94 honda accord from a standstill to a marked spot on my driveway and it did 95kph and my car on the same thing at 125kph, so any ideas on hp? I know its pretty vague but what can you do?

V8 would be cool

He just needs an IC, a T28, and a fuel pump. He's not looking for more than 200whp.

And besides, for the money spent sticking a ford POS in an S12, you could run any number of superior nissan swaps.

He'd need alot more than just that, management for a start to get it to run, larger injectors probably to, exhaust would be a cost in both conversions as would clutch, it'll all add up in the end. The 302 would probably be cheaper the, and more torque i'd guess to. But i don't know much about 302s.

Yes and fitting in a ford V8 is cheap how?

He just needs an IC, a T28, and a fuel pump. He's not looking for more than 200whp.

And besides, for the money spent sticking a ford POS in an S12, you could run any number of superior nissan swaps.

CA20
Intercooler $100
Intercooler Piping $100
GOOD T28 turbo $500
Fuel Computer $250
440cc Fuel Injectors $80
Intake/Exhaust Piping $100
Clutch $250

$1380

And that doesn't even begin to cover misc. parts and supplies. Lets not forget that you won't get anywhere close to 200rwhp without some major work to the bottom end of a CA20.

CA18ET
Engine $70 (I'd be very leary of buying a $70 engine.)
Intercooler $100
Intercooler Piping $100
GOOD T28 turbo $500
Fuel Computer $250
440cc Fuel Injectors $80
Intake/Exhaust Piping $100
Clutch $250

$1450

Again, you still have to buy additional items.

CA18DET
Engine $800
Shipping $250

Do I really need to go any further.

Ford 302

Engine & Tranny $500 (Complete, air cleaner to oil pan)
Steel for Engine/Transmission mounts $50
Modified Driveshaft $100
Exhaust $150
Used Electric Fan $25

$825

That leaves you $175 for misc parts and supplies. I'm not saying you should go out and drop a 5.0 in your car, but for $1000 its the easiest way to get 200rwhp and it would be a hell of a lot faster than a 200rwhp CA18.

YankeeDrifter, you might want to learn to drive before you go and try to get 200hp out of your car.

Put a Ford V-8 in an import car? What a silly idea.
http://www.carrollshelbyent.com/images/engine_splash.jpg

It'd sounds better than a CA18DET while making more power anyways hehe.
Whatever option you go with it's more realistic to budget $2000 or whatever for the conversion if you think it'll cost you $1000...cars have a habit of getting expensive on ppl or catching you out with stuff you forgot.
The 302 would have huge aftermarket support i would imagine to?

There are more aftermarket parts for a 302 than there are bolts holding a 200sx together.

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with MrBob on that one. Only thing is though, if you're not too mechanically inclined, it might not be so easy with the custom motor mounts, tranny mounts, and custom driveshaft.

Now would I drop a 302 in a 200SX? Probably not, but that's just my opinion. It's gonna be hard any way you cut it to get 200 rwhp for $1000. I would just save my money and keep my eyes open for a turbo S12, then if you find one, sell yours, use the money you saved, and have a turbo car to start with. That way you can learn as you go instead of undertaking a majorly huge project.

That's my $.02.

firstly, a ca20e wont produce 200rwhp withstandard internals, turbo or not. so a rebuild would be on the cards (costly). 2ndly the ca18et isnt much better, but i am sure you could massage 200rwhp with t28, larger injectors, exhaust and fmic......but again, stock internals will play a huge part.

i think the V8 would be the go, make 200rwhp easily, have bag loads of torque and sound insane.

best bang for buck.........

Healthy 302 with tranny (auto) $500
Custom tailshaft, mounts front springs $500

there u go, simply put, $1000 conversion. Thats australian dollars too, so u should be able to manage it with US currency quite easily.

good lluck, each to their own, but just remember,

"speed costs money, how fast you wanna go?"

Catch.

I want Bart to dyno his car to settle this issue, since he has the bang-for-the-buck racer that's probably the fastest (in those terms).

And we are going to put 1=2's car on a dyno very soon and see what it makes. Doesn't really matter though, Yankee drifter doesn't have a turbo car now so what Bart does is really a moot point anyway.

There is no replacement for (cheap, easy to get, American) displacement.

I don't want to swap in an 302. I read in SCC, as well as here that the CA18et can hold 200hp on stock internals. Second, I would have a boost controller, and wouldn't run 200hp all the time, just for ricer civics, dyno runs, racing and the like. Okay, so if I want to run 200hp, I'm gonna need to budget more like 2grand? In that case, I'd probably get everything save for the turbo and just run less hp.

Bullshit. Much as I hate to admit it you can squeeze juice for alot less than 1K and blow the 302 setup out of the water.

And not be a noseheavy pig of a car in the process.

And also if you are not relying on a tuner shop to do all your work or you, you can prolly spend about a grand and get it to 200whp.

Bullshit. Much as I hate to admit it you can squeeze juice for alot less than 1K and blow the 302 setup out of the water.

Never gonna happen. What are you going to get, a 50 shot? 75? A 302 would eat it alive. Not to mention the 300+ ft/lbs of torque you would get from a 302. Then when you wanted to upgrade the 302, you could spend a couple of hundred dollars on it and get another 60-75 hp.

Cry and whine about a 302 all you want. When it all comes down to it, if you want to go fast and you want to do it cheap, get a V8.

Arro, have you ever heard of the Grassroots Motorsports $200X dollar challenge. I urge you to look at the number of cars that run V8 powerplants.

And not be a noseheavy pig of a car in the process.

And also if you are not relying on a tuner shop to do all your work or you, you can prolly spend about a grand and get it to 200whp.

Really, with a set of aluminum heads, it probably would weigh about the same as the V6 model. 302s aren't very heavy. It's a bit of a ricer myth to think that V8s are slow and heavy. A 302 may only make about 225hp stock, but that is totally stock. 302 parts pretty much grow on trees so you could just find the 302 header tree and hop on up to 260hp, then the 302 camshaft tree (you only need one), and bump up to 300hp, then if you want to make a lot of power, you could just turbocharge that. You can spool up a really big turbo with 4.9L. I really wish someone on the board would do the swap, just so we can have an American S12 in the 9s as well. Most ricers forget that 500hp is about what a totally built 4 cyl generally makes, but a totally built v8 can make more than 2,000hp. A cheaply built 302 can make 600hp with a junkyard turbo setup (check out www.turbomustangs.com). The fastest CA guys on this board are just at 200HP or so. A 302 would put the car right with that, except it would have 300 ft/lbs of torque that doesn't spool up, so it wouldn't have shitty 60 ft times (unless it had bad tires).

All the prices listed above was assuming that you did the work yourself. If you paid someone else to install all that stuff (assuming that they would), then it would probably cost you about three times as much. If you just want to stick with a Nissan engine, then buy a turbo model car. The biggest majority of the stuff in going to a CA20et will be moving the electronics and wiring over, which you would also have to do with the 1.8 swap as well.

Alright. I have a couple of options, and I was looking for some club input. As the title states, I was thinking of originally doing a CA20ET conversion, but after that write-up by Yellow, I'm kind of intimidated. I'm aiming for 190-200 rwhp out of whatever I do. I do have a budget of like $1000, but hope to do it for less. I'm looking at a CA18ET for $70 US w/o an intake mani. Ease of installation is also a factor, as I would like to have a maybe a week long (maybe that's not realistic, I don't know), and I'm no excellent mechanic, although I could probably do most anything with my dad and neighbor's help, but again, time's an issue. Anyway, please incluse a pro/con post.

This is a CA20ET vs CA18ET CONVERSATION AND YANKEE DRIFTER SAID HE DIDNT WANT TO SWAP IN A 302 ARE YOU GUYS STUPID!

TAKE YOUR EGO WARS SOMEWHERE ELSE UNLESS YOU HAVE INPUT ON THE CURRENT TOPIC.
BUNCH OF WOMEN YOU 3 ARE. FLAME AWAY! :roll:

Aw i want cheap V8s tho....:(

This is a CA20ET vs CA18ET CONVERSATION AND YANKEE DRIFTER SAID HE DIDNT WANT TO SWAP IN A 302 ARE YOU GUYS STUPID!

TAKE YOUR EGO WARS SOMEWHERE ELSE UNLESS YOU HAVE INPUT ON THE CURRENT TOPIC.
BUNCH OF WOMEN YOU 3 ARE. FLAME AWAY! :roll:

Yeah, that was my bad.

Something on the current topic though, if you have good electronics skills, you may be able to build a megasquirt system and then you wouldn't have to deal with all the wiring of swapping to a different engine. You would still have a bunch of new wiring to do, but it might end up being a lot cheaper in the long run. A buddy of mine with a Supercharged Scirocco (which I probably spelled wrong), said it took about $200 to build, but he could do another one for about $120 since he had bought an $80 piece that he didn't need. It would make it a lot more affordable since you can usually get an engine cheaper when it doesn't come with the wiring. You will probably have to use GM style sensors though, and that would be an additional expense.

That might be the way to go, but he said he didnt want a swap and wanted to know if the OEM engine could handle 200, and if it was attainablewithin $1K. I still think its potentially attainable, it may go a bit over 1K or may not, again let the dynos do the talking.

And as for GRM, I seem to recall a certain Chevy Sprint Turbo winning not that long ago.. and Omni turbos are gunning for the title every year...hmmmm kinda foils the bigger is better theory a tad.

Anyways, If you really want to do something with the CA18ET, you really should expect to spend healthy 2 grand. I'm not saying 1 grand isnt doable, but 2 grand most assuredly is.

I would have loved to list things as I modifid them but this car is casuing me so many heartaches, I'll have to rely on other people for this... every time I fix or replace something broken, it's my rule to upgrade it. 1=2 has me thinking about the standalone management, since my dash is off now and I suppose putting that in wouldnt be all that hard... but i'll leave that for another thread.

1=2 has me thinking about the standalone management, since my dash is off now and I suppose putting that in wouldnt be all that hard... but i'll leave that for another thread.

Yeah, dude's Scirocco has it in his glovebox, it's out of the way and convient to plug a computer into. Having the dash off would be the time to do it. Still, it's a lot of work, and for just 200 whp, I think it would be overkill, but it would make it easier to swap the engines out instead of using all Nissan equipment.

I think I could handle an OEM engine swap, but I'm not too sure about a 302. Plus, I don't want a 302! First off, the CA18ET comes intercooled stock right? I was thinking, I get the CA18ET, keep it out for now, watch for a turbo that can boost 200hp, watch for a BOV, grab a bigger intercooler from a Volvo like 1=2, get the wiring ready, and get a boost controller (electronic if I can find a cheap one, or mechanical if I can't) then, near the end of the summer, I take a week, swap the engine and intake mani off of my CA20E, and swap the whole kit-and-kiboutle in, wire it up, and break it in! :-P Alright, please point out any flaws in my reasoning, except that I could do it with a 302!

No 302! you want one, you do it! :roll: :-x

CA18ET comes intercooled stock right?

Nope.

watch for a turbo that can boost 200hp

Could most likely snag a T25 off someone who upgraded their SR20 for pretty cheap.

Actually sounds like a pretty good plan! Get everything ready that you can possibly think of BEFORE pulling yours apart, and always expect it to take 2-3 times as long as you planned. :laugh:

I think 200hp will probably be on the outer limits of the stock fuel system, but it is definetly doable. Depending on how well it runs with the bigger turbo, an SAFC might be required, but hopefully not. They're a pretty big hit to the wallet...

well first off sorry to bring back a dead thread but i had a few questions.
now im in the same boat,i would like to keep the ca20 and turbo it,but im not expecting to go too crazy with it im hoping for around175 to 185 hp at the crank,i do have experince turboing n/a cars,but what i was wondering is there anyone who makes better connecting rods for the ca20 or do you think i could just throw some welds up and down the old ones then grind them all to the same weight,the motor needs to be rebuilt soon anyways,also what do you guys think of this for fuel managment http://www.sportcompactonly.com/product.asp?prodid=1198&catid=8
,also for a air/fuel ratio gauge does that just tap in the wire for the o2 sensor?with the air fuel gauge i should be able to tune the car useing the above mentioned equipment correct?
now my last question is are the exhust bolts the same on the ca20 as the ca18Det i noticed there are quite a few differences like the DIS, but i was just curious cause a guy i met at the local car get togethers has a turbo mani for the det,or am i stuck searching for a ca18et turbo mani?
any help would be great
thanks
dustin

One of the reasons I dropped this thread is that Joel (I think...) said it was possible to attain 175hp with an NA CA20E with around a grand, so I think that'll be my route.

hmm

ca18et....
bar/plate fmic... the volvo ones i hate to say suck... can i hear heat soak..
s-afc.. to tune a/f
3in exhaust
euro cam
t25g off sr20det
14psi or so

= well over 190whp