Update on Project CA20ET

Time for an update on my project CA20ET... Here's the original thread:

Project CA20ET has begun!!! (http://www.club-s12.org/board/showthread.php?t=7073)

I just scored a set of 450cc DSM injectors, and they're on their way to Bartco for a custom aluminum fuel rail and adjustable FPR that'll fit on the stock CA20E manifold.

I decided to stick with the SOHC head mostly for cost reasons, and I'm always advocating being different, and how many times have you seen a quick turbo'd DOHC car compared to a quick turbo'd SOHC car? So anyway, there's where I'm at on that deal. Ran into a couple problems though...

The stock 4G63 rods that I bought aren't going to work unless I can cut new slots for the bearing tangs. I didn't notice it until today, but the stock 4G rods have the tangs ALLLLL the way to the outside of the rods, so that means once I narrow them to fit the CA20 crank, the slot will be exposed. So that leaves me a couple options:

1) Get a set of Eagle 93-94 rods and narrow them, which are about .070 narrower to start with, but I still might have the same problem.

2) Get the Eagle rods and widen the crankshaft. Don't really want to do that and compromise crankshaft integrity.

3) Go a whole different route. Not sure what else I can do, but I guess I could get some custom Pauters like Alex's, just don't really want to plunk down $750 for them.

I decided that my end goal is to have a nice looking, 12 second totally streetable car with a total investment of under $4k. Go ahead and laugh it up, but remember that all the machine work I'm doing myself, and I'll probably end up doing the paint and body work myself too...

So, I'm gonna go home and lay awake in bed tonight trying to figure out what to do now... :mrgreen:

That kinda sucks, but hey as a last option you could always plop a 4G63 into the S12...*lol* 8)

That kinda sucks, but hey as a last option you could always plop a 4G63 into the S12...*lol* 8)

screw the 4g if you want something better then throw the fj in there... it was around before the 4g was.. why do u think the 4g looks so similiar to the fj

Nope, no motor swapping for me... :laugh:

I'm not a real big fan of 4G63's anyway, I just wanna borrow some parts off of em. They really were pretty crappy motors from the factory, nothing that can't be fixed with a little ingenuity and aftermarket parts, but stock, they're actually pretty crap-tific...

I'm determined to build up this CA20 bottom end, and I still have my mind set on using all off the shelf parts. I could get a set of custom rods made with no problems, but what's the fun in that? :mrgreen:

I might be able to use the later 2G DSM rods, but I'd have to go with Eagles, since the stockers won't hold up to much abuse. They're only .070 wider than the stock CA20 rod, which I could take off of the crank and use the stock Mitsu bearings, I'm just not too crazy about taking away strength from the crank... But it would only be .035 off each side, so it wouldn't be a huge deal.

screw the 4g if you want something better then throw the fj in there... it was around before the 4g was.. why do u think the 4g looks so similiar to the fj
That was sarcasm...8)

eeek ...

Have you ever seen another group of car owners that consider "crank walk" a factory gremlin?

I think on a ca20e crank, you won't be giving up much strength - if you're using one that hasn't been machined already. As long as you've got good bearings, I don't see it being a problem.

Ignore me for one second, but I think I found out that Mopar 5.2 rods are very close to the ca20es in physical size. I think it was the 5.2, maybe it was the 225/6 ... crap. When I was looking, I was looking with ca18et specs in mind, and they were all too long for me. But in a ca20e ... hmm

Have you ever seen another group of car owners that consider "crank walk" a factory gremlin?

:rofl:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about...

Alright here's the major specs on the rods:

CA20E
Length : 5.841
Big end Width: .968
Big end housing bore: 1.890
Piston pin diameter: 20mm

Mitsu 2G 4G63
Length: 5.905
Big end width: 1.038
Big end housing bore: 1.890
Piston Pin diameter: 22mm

318 Chrysler
Length: 6.125
Big end width: .935
Big end housing bore: 2.250
Piston pin diameter: .984 (about 25mm)

/6 Chrysler
Length: 6.699
Big end width: .940
Big end housing bore: 3.3125
Piston pin diameter: .900

So, the 318 is a little on the long side, and actually a little too narrow, and there would have to be some kind of bearing to go down from a 2.25 housing bore to a 1.770 rod journal... :yikes:

I think the Mitsu rod is the way to go, I was just hoping I could use my uber-cheap stock rods, and it looks like I'm gonna have to end up going Eagle...

Sweet! I eventaully am hoping to build up my CA20E, wether it's turbo, quad tb's, or both. Anyways, great news for CA20E owners!

hmmm ... must have been the good crack on that day.

Let me dig up my notes, I know I scrawled it somewhere ... I do remember having V8 rods that looked like a good option, just a bit too tall for the ca18.

I do realize I shouldn't have opened my mouth before I actually knew what I wanted to say.

Hmm ... maybe chebby, 331 Hemi? *lol*

Ignore me

I've found a few rods from V8's that might work, but the main problem is the housing bore is too big. I've been trying to find some specs on the Chevy "honda journal" rod that is used in NASCAR and Circle track cars to reduce friction. That might work. Only other problem is that some of the rods are too narrow. It's alright if they're too wide, but it's hard to add metal to one that's too narrow... :rofl:

JB weld ;)

JB weld ;)

what r u talking about matt bondo is the way to go>>>>

i think you would find that rods from a rb30e and rb30et would fit smug from what i hear the motor is almost identical with just two pots removed, i know you didn't get it in anything in the us but look into it as in aus there are plenty of aftermarket for the rb30e an rb30et.

Alright, I'll check on that! Thanks for the tip! ;-)

Well, just talked to my crank grinder today, and he said it's probably not a good idea to widen the crankshaft. And after looking at the crank a little closer, I agree with him. The way the crank is filleted on the corners makes it kinda useless to widen it since you'd have to use the narrow Nissan rod bearing anyway.

But, he said there's no problem with cutting your own bearing tang groove in the rod. He said he used to do that with old straight 6 Chevy's with babbitt bearings. He would burn out the old babbitt material, recondition the rod, and cut a groove for the new bearing.

So I'm thinking about trying that, but my only problem is that when I narrow the rod, the old bearing tang groove is going to be exposed...

Alright, finally made a big score on ebay. I'm sure all the naysayers will talk pure crap because I did it, but I bought a T3/TO4 hybrid:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7930060964&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

It is a smaller hybrid, but I've already had a bunch of people tell me it'll be too laggy, but I guess we'll see. My goal is to hit 300rwhp, and I just don't think I can hit it with anything else.

Oh, and I've been watching this seller for a while, and all his turbos have been selling for around $350-400. Got this one for $287 including shipping and tax... :mrgreen:

Just one step closer to having it ready!

nice... your best bet is to get a nos setup and squueze a 25-50 shot over the first 2-3k rpms t get the turbo up and spooling very quickly and then your wanted power levels can be attianed much easier with a much larger powerband

Yeah I'm planning on a 50-75 shot anyway. I just hope it won't be too laggy on the street, but we'll find out! If the B16 Honda boys can stand it with a T3/T4, I think I can too! :laugh:

Yeah I'm planning on a 50-75 shot anyway. I just hope it won't be too laggy on the street, but we'll find out! If the B16 Honda boys can stand it with a T3/T4, I think I can too! :laugh:

ya but remember most of them have a 7-9k redline we only have 6 so you will need a 50-75 shot to have any kind of powerband otherwise i bet you wil fully spool around 4500-5000rpms

Well, I'm hoping my redline will be about 6500 when I get done, but yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess I'll try it and if I don't like it, I can always sell it and get a smaller one. I don't feel like I'm out too bad for the price I got it for.

Well, I'm hoping my redline will be about 6500 when I get done, but yeah, I see what you're saying. I guess I'll try it and if I don't like it, I can always sell it and get a smaller one. I don't feel like I'm out too bad for the price I got it for.

u know if it doesnt work get a gt28rs(disco potatoe).. thing is good for 350whp and is very quick to spool... SCC used it on there project 240sx and they had to launch in 2nd at the track cauxe they got inot boost so fast all they did was spin the tires

Yeah, that's what I was gonna go with until I got this one, but then I'd have to switch from the T3 to the T25 flange. Wonder if they make an adapter? Well I'm getting ahead of myself anyway... First thing is to try the T3/T4...

any news on the rods? RB20E? 305(?)?
Also, what are you planning on doing for the setup, are you using stuff from a CA18et? Exhaust manifold and such, or are you doing it custom?

Well, it looks like the CA20ET project is gonna see a much slower pace now.

I just picked up a complete KA24DE for $50, so I'm gonna build that for the S12.

I'm still gonna keep on working on the CA20 though, since I know this bottom end can be built up one way or another.

For rods, I'm still gonna try to modify some 4G63 rods to fit, I just need my vertical mill to narrow the big end to fit the crank.

I was hoping for an exhaust manifold that by the time I finished there would be a tubular one out. But if not, I'd buy some flanges (Magnum has some for sale), and make my own header.

Other than that, was planning on running CA18ET electronics with a Z31 MAF, and 450cc DSM injectors, and tuned with an SAFC-II.

Joel. You would not happen to be selling that engine would you be :P I am loooking for one for a 240 I wanna build. I could trade you some Turbo S12 parts. T-25G turbo...starion IC... :-P

Eh, I'll think about it... ;) I was wanting to build it up anyway, but with everything I've got on the table now, it'll be a while before I get to it. Got the KA24's valve cover off last week before I went on vacation, and the thing looks like freakin brand new inside.

Also got an SR20DE over the weekend to play with too. Add to that my Dad's twin turbo 351W F150 we're working on, and I don't have much time for other toys... :D

Alright, I know I said that I'm not gonna work on this motor anymore, but I just wanted to let everyone know that me and Henge messed with the block on Wednesday, and finally got my sonic tester working. Tested the CA20, and the thinnest spot that I could find was .150". All the rest was around .200-.300. Now, that .150 would be of some concern if it was on the major thrust side, but the major thrust side was plenty thick with around .250 all throughout the ring travel. So these blocks can very safely be bored .020, I think .040 would probably work, but would require a sonic check. IMO, I wouldn't go over .020, and with the way these things wear, you probably would never have to go past .020...