Better Braking...!

Ok guys, im "trying" to get my car decent enough for scca solo 2 auto x. So far the brakes worry me alot. My brakes, brake fine aslong as i dont jam em or go to fast then jam em. (jam em aka slam on them :) )

I will pick up the name "Cone destroyer" if i enter Solo 2 with these brakes. keep in mind i havent even touched my brakes since i bought this s12. from the looks of it, neither did the previous owner.

A friend of mine told me that if i buy "steel braided lines", "Turn my rotors", Bleed my lines, and get new brake pads my car will be turning super, compared to how it is now?

Is this true? also, turning your rotors stands for shaving the disc's right? where can i buy steel braided lines for my s12?

Plz help, Tony.

The stock S12 brakes aren't to bad, i reckon that doing those things will be sufficient for autocross sort of stuff. You can buy new slotted rotors (in australia i think DBA make some), not sure on the availability of better pads but someone probably makes them. Use new fluid, preferably a better grade than standard (you are supposed to change your brake fuid once a year or so anyways.

Maybe instead of DBA slotted rotors you could just get your factory items slotted and machined. Good and cheap!

This with new fluid and decent pads will make a noticable improvement! :laugh:

Whats the diff with the slotted ones and teh ones i have now?

Also, cant a brake shop just shave my disc?

yeah a brakeshop can both machine the disc face and add slots (if there is enough dics left). The slots are grooves (the can be radial or like a pair of off centre circles or whatever) in the disc face that let hot gas escape from between the pad and the rotor face, kinda like how grooves in your tyre let the water escape so you don't aquaplane. Crossdrilling is similar but don't get that done, if you use your brakes on a track they constant heavy heating and cooling will crack the rotor from the corners of the holes.

how much do you think it will cost me to have all 4 discs slotted..? do i also need to shavem in order to slot them or can i just slot em now?

how much do you think it will cost me to have all 4 discs slotted..? do i also need to shavem in order to slot them or can i just slot em now?

don't do that.

removing metal from your discs will weaken the rotors(machining them OR slotting them). and seeing as how these things will be used for autoX/solo2 and not just daily driving you'll warp those ****ers fast.

go for a brembo blank or a slotted one that was designed like that. those ones are made with a higher tolerance than simply slotting your oem ones.

may be more expensive now. but you'll be crying later if your machined oem rotors **** up your car right?

so will, performance brake pads and steel braided hoses make a difference? will my car brake better and stop locking when ever i brake a lil rough?

probably will increase the amount of braking power you have...but that may also increase your likelyhood of locking up the wheels.

increasing the amount of power to stop the wheels from turning = higher likelyhood of locking the brakes under extremely heavy braking in non abs cars like ours.

the trick is to not slam on the brakes but actually "squeeze" them. dont' just mash the brakes. try to apply the brakes evenly and it shouldn't happen.

by the way, slotted/drilled rotors are used to prevent brake fade, which happens when the rotor/pads heat up too much to effectively stop the car.

is there any aftermarket rotors for our s12's?

Like, crossdrilled/or slotted? or any for that matter?

thnx for the info. i plan on engine braking/lil bit of brakes so that i dont put everything on the brakes. (yes i will heel toe to stay at power band) ;)

If you're just going into solo2 you're brakes aren't going to be a problem. Runs aren't more than 70 seconds on the biggest of courses. You'll only hit the brakes hard about 3 times per run, with about 15 or more minutes between runs for them to cool. If you don't suffer from fade on the street driving normally, then you're not going to have to worry about it at an auto-x track, especially if you're on street tires. If you can lock up a wheel, you have good enough braking for solo2 competition. Begining drivers tend to brake early, so you won't be as hard on the brakes as a more experienced driver.

The CA engined S12 has pretty crummy brakes though. If you were looking at an upgrade, I would look into putting the SE V6 model brakes on the car (I believe they are the same as the Z31). Upgrading your brakes rotors will also throw you out of stock class if that's what you are looking to run in. Turning your rotors and upgrading pads are both okay in stock classes. No point in turning the rotors unless they are warped though. Pads will make a difference, but unless you have the V6, you might have trouble finding quality performance pads. Bleeding the brakes will be good if you have any air in them or if your brake fluid is full of moisture (it will look dark if wet, clear if in good shape).

Stainless steel brakes lines are supposed to be good for pedal feel. I have no idea as I haven't tried them. I don't know if you can change them in stock class, but I doubt it. I think KVR sells a kit for SS lines, but it's pretty pricey (~$150 I think) for something that would be done only for pedal feel. KVR also sells slotted and/or cross-drilled rotors for our cars too if you want to upgrade, they are priced reasonably (~$70/rotor). All of these brake upgrades are probably legal in STS (which would probably be an easier class since it requires non R compound tires).

Don't think that you have to have a race car to run in Solo2 competition. Most of the cars out there are stock cars, except the competitive guys also have a second set of rims for their R compound tires. If you're interested in Solo1/Time Trials, then you will definitely need a brake upgrade, but with Solo2 you might just want to save some money and take some runs first. It's more the driver than the car at a Solo2 competition and it's a lot cheaper to improve the driver.

steel braided lines will improve brake pedal feel. It won't go down as much when you brake (the rubber lines expand becuase of the pressure).

Like others have said, bleed your brakes, change the fluid.

As far as machining your rotors as long as your not fighting the steering wheel (I.E. it shakes like a wet dog when you brake) you should be fine. You might not even smell them being that you'll only be using them hard for such a short period of time.

Trust me on this one. I went to The dragon's tail with my brakes not at 100% and I wasn't scared for my life. I knew my rotors were warped, I think my master cylinder was screwed up too. The heat from the stupid brakes being toasted to hell ****ed it up even more but, one week later, I'm still alive and still driving the damned thing. :mrgreen: Yes I'm a moron you don't have to tell me.

Now i'm not sure how you're brakes are but I think most of my problems stem from my master cylinder seals being screwed up.

I dont think ill fall into stock class seeing as how i have a big Isuzu NPR intercooler infront of my car lol. exhaust, intake, t2 raise teh boost to 13psi, throttle body, and cam are coming...

What class will that drop me in? i would like to race in STS.

The best class for you would then probably be SM (street modified). This is for street legal cars that have been highly modified. It's mostly for the Honda guys that like to put B series engines in their D-series cars. You can swap engines in this class as long as it's from the same manufactuer, for example you can put an SR20 in, or you can put a Q45 v8 in. You have to have a stock interior for this class.

You could also run either DM or EM, I can't remember which. This is for probuction based race cars. DM will have Lotus 7 replicas and EM will have Corvette race cars. Either way these are very fast classes. SM will probably be the easier one since it's for real street cars. I run SM. Whatever brake upgrade you would want to do is legal in any of the Modified classes.

There may be a regional class you can run in, our region has OSR and OSF, open street FWD and open street RWD. The new guys on street tires have the option to run these classes.

If you're locking up your tires, you have enough brakes. As Indecisive said, squeeze the brakes, that will get your suspension working for you on braking and cut down on the locking up. Also, if you get stickier tires, they won't lock up as easy. If you're having trouble with fade or you can't lock the tires up, then the brakes should help you.

I raced for two years with nothing but stock brakes, and that car would STOP!!! And this was in a CA20 car, lol. That car probably had the best brakes of anything I've ever driven, way better than the tube-framed 3200lbs Grand Stock I drove the next year... :laugh:

Just make sure everything is in good shape, and like everyone else said flush the fluid and put some good stuff in it.

Oh, and for the V6 brakes, aren't the V6's 5 lug though? I might have a V6 parts car before long, but I don't want to go to the 5 lug since I already have about 4 sets of 4 lug wheels for my car... :wall:

Yes, the V6 200SX is five lug, but the early Z31s (84,85, and maybe 86) were 4 lug. I don't know if they swap over though. I would be interested to find out if someone else already knows.

Jason