Project CA20ET has begun!!!

Started tearing down the motor about an hour ago. Maybe I'll get some pics up next week sometime. Got it tore down to the shortblock, and everything looks good so far. Looks like a fairly unmolested factory block. Has some wear in the cylinders, but nothing too bad. Oh, and the really good news: it DOES have a forged crank in it. I was thinking this would be the case, but that makes me feel a little better... ;)

For those who don't know, my plan with this motor is to build a max-effort all out CA20 using as many off the shelf parts as possible. First step is the bottom end which I plan on using Eagle H-beam rods for a 93-94 Mitsu 4G63, and using Wiseco pistons made for a 4G63 with a 4G64 stroker crank. According to my calculations, that should put me close to zero deck. Haven't decided what to do with the peanut port head and intake yet. Once it's together I plan on running a T3 turbo and a stand alone engine managment system. I'm shooting for 350-400 at the flywheel.

There's a possibility of trying to use a CA18DE head, but that'll come later. Right now I'm focusing on the short block. So I'll keep everyone updated here as I move along...

Sounds like a plan, make sure to keep us posted on the build up...8)

Joel07 it DOES have a forged crank in it. I was thinking this would be the case, but that makes me feel a little better... ;)

QUOTE]

you talking about the ca20e crank

According to my calculations, that should put me close to zero deck.

Measure twice...or more.....and assemble once.

forgive me if I'm wrong, but since yellow already got pauter to make him custom rods...should we not be able to get them from them agian? It should only take a phone call.

forgive me if I'm wrong, but since yellow already got pauter to make him custom rods...should we not be able to get them from them agian? It should only take a phone call.he's trying to save money buy using other forged rods that are available at half the price.

the reason for the rods being expensive is that they have to hire a mexican to spend 15 minutes changing out the molds for the new rods, then, when its done, they have to re-hire him again to change it back to the ever so popular SR20 rod molds. I definitly think that this 15 minute process is worth the extra $325.......NOT!

but in the end, don't you feel better boosting with forged rods? live and learn :D

hah

the second i hit 1004 miles and switched to synthetic, i raped the crap out of that engine. 7psi around every corner and i damn well wore out like 50% of my tires in like 400 miles. I tore that thing up and know for a fact it can go for another 1000K miles no problem.

Yeah, it's the CA20E crank and motor. And yeah, the reason I'm doing it is to try and save money. Next step is seeing if I can find some stainless swirl polished valves that I can make fit... :evillaug:

Well, I got everything tore down, and most of the major stuff cleaned already. Head looks in pretty good shape, crank looks excellent, and I guess the tapping I was hearing was a rod. The #1 rod bearing was pretty beat up. Luckily it hadn't spun, and the crank still looks good, though I haven't miked it yet.

Unfortunately, I've got too much to do again in the shop before I really hit this hard, so it's going on the back-burner for a while. We need to get a parts-runner truck for the shop going, and I need to get my truck running so I can pull parade floats this fall. Then, my Dad wants to get his Camaro put together, and then, just maybe, I can get going on the S12... :lol:

But don't worry, I'll still be tinkering with it in my spare time, especially since I saw 30PSI's modified intake with an S13 upper plenum... :evillaug:

Well, I emailed AEBS (the only US dealer for Tomei products) asking about their CA20 crankshaft that they sell as a stroker kit for the CA18DET. I asked if it was just a stock piece, or what. Here's the answer:

Thanks for your email. As to your question, yes Tomei offers a camshaft for the CA18 but I do not know if the valvetrain in the CA20 is different than the CA18. The camshaft offered by Tomei is not a stock spec cam from Nissan, but the cores that Tomei uses are from Nissan because the do work closely with them. I beleive the cam core is cast.

:slap: :slap: :slap:

So either this guy just didn't read my e-mail, or he's an idiot. I don't think I'll even grace him with a follow up email.

haha morons i tell ya... camshaft crankshaft ya really looks the same doesnt it

just send him exactly the same e-mail again
and if he gives you a shit answer do it again
and again
and again :evillaug:
then eventually he might give you a decent answer

Just bought some Mitsu 4G63 big rods on ebay! Decided to modify some stock rods, especially since they're supposed to be able to handle 500hp anyway. So throw some ARP rod bolts in it, recondition them, and then I have to cut about .075 off of each side to get it to fit the Nissan crank. At first I was thinking I'd have to widen the crank and use Mitsu bearings, but the housing bore is the same size on the Nissan and Mitsu rods, so hopefully I'll be able to use Nissan bearings and not have to modify the crank at all. As long as the bearing tangs line up right anyway...

Figured it'd be better to chop up some stock rods than a set of Eagles anyway...

Oh, and I bought a CA18ET wiring harness, so I'll be running that with a z31 maf and an SAFC, and hopefully it'll run alright... :-|

This thing might just come together a whole lot quicker than I was expecting. But, I still have the major expenses coming up (turbo, manifold, FMIC, pistons, etc.)

Just bought some Mitsu 4G63 big rods on ebay! Decided to modify some stock rods, especially since they're supposed to be able to handle 500hp anyway. So throw some ARP rod bolts in it, recondition them, and then I have to cut about .075 off of each side to get it to fit the Nissan crank. At first I was thinking I'd have to widen the crank and use Mitsu bearings, but the housing bore is the same size on the Nissan and Mitsu rods, so hopefully I'll be able to use Nissan bearings and not have to modify the crank at all. As long as the bearing tangs line up right anyway...

Figured it'd be better to chop up some stock rods than a set of Eagles anyway...

Oh, and I bought a CA18ET wiring harness, so I'll be running that with a z31 maf and an SAFC, and hopefully it'll run alright... :-|

This thing might just come together a whole lot quicker than I was expecting. But, I still have the major expenses coming up (turbo, manifold, FMIC, pistons, etc.)

dont forget to get some bigger injectors.. if you need i can make you a rail to accept the o-ringed type injectors.. i'll post a pic to show you what i have

Yeah I'm definetly gonna need injectors and a rail... Post it up as soon as you get it... :headbang:

Hey Joel, I thought you fell off the face of the earth. Give me a call sometime. I've got to put a new head on the car before next season and need a couple of pointers. Are you going to race next year? Let me know. I'm in the Raleigh phone book.
Patrick Connor

You thought I fell off the face of the earth? I thought you did!!! :laugh: Good to hear from you, I'll call you today...

1st gen TSi blue top injectors are low impedence 450cc units.

You can get em used for under $50 for the set.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/mr200/200sx/bluetops.jpg

ignore the rail

and if i DO believe, bart has a rail made up for these type of injectors with the CA18DET 370cc in it. And it looks DAMN good if I might add. thumbs up on that build bart. see if you could get one made for your project.

So they should work with Bart's rail, right? I'm planning on buying one of his rails, and I know DSM injectors are generally dirt cheap.

Oh, and I'm bidding on a brand new t3/t4 turbo now... hehehe... Doubt I'll get it though, we'll find out in 2 days and 10 hours. :laugh:

[edit]

Oops, beat me to it Alex... :lol:

Well, looks like I might have just hit a major hitch in the program. The Wiseco pistons I was planning on using for some reason I thought had -10cc dishes. Was looking at them today, and they actually have -22cc dishes. Sooooo, that means that the compression ratio will be in the kerosene burning range...

Guess it's back to the drawing board for pistons. Worse comes to worse I can always get custom made pistons, but I was hoping to use some off the shelf stuff...

Whooo! Just got off the phone with Wiseco, we found a piston for the CRVtec motor (B20 bottom end with B16A head), that I would have to cut .030-.040 off of, but he said the thickness was .200, and the top ringland was about .300 down, so that should work out pretty good. It has an -18 cc dish, but when I cut some off of the top, that should get it about right...

Now that's a good hot rodder.......adapt and overcome!!

check http://stores.ebay.com/The-Street-Source for a turbo

check http://stores.ebay.com/The-Street-Source for a turbo

Seem a little on the high side. Most of what I saw that they had was kits and a few T25's, and I'm definetly going bigger than that... :laugh:

But thanks anyway!! :wink:

those are some ROCK bottom prices for NEW In BOx turbos. most have free shipping too. they are the people who will be making the maniflds for the CA18ET when it comes time to make one.

Don't get me wrong, they're good prices, but I don't really want a T25. The only other turbos I saw they had for sale were with a manifold for some Honda, Neon, etc...

Just wait a couple days and we'll see how this t3/t4 deal comes out... :evillaug:

just wanted to add a few things
shooting for 350-400 hp on the standard management system is a prety bad idea the better option would be to use a aftermarket ecu which has a Map sensor this way you can have a airfilter on teh front of the turbo with very little in the way of piping or maf sensors to cause any kind of preasure drop
i have the same kind of layout on my turbo R31 Skyline and Turbo RX7

and as for turbo selection the CA20's are pretty nasty engines pick somthing that will spool up at decent revs i have a Ball Bearing Turbo from a R33 skyline on my R31 and it builds boost pretty decently and even more importantly on a 2lt engine and automatic gearbox has droped 230hp at the rear wheels which works out roughly to 300hp @ engine on only 10psi
the even better part is i paid AU$450 for the turbo with warrenty!

Wow. I'm still thinking t3/t4 for the turbo. As far as engine management goes, I was hoping to get by without buying the $1500 stand alone setups... :laugh: But, if I can get the hybrid DOHC idea to work, I'm gonna need to go that way anyway to work the DIS...

i would reccomend a Wolf 3d V4 ecu
is your loom CA18DET or CA18ET?
if its DET you may be able to use the plugin wolf for a S13 silvia
i have a Haltech E6K in my R31 which has never missed a beat and the RX7 has a Haltech E6M which is virtually the same as a E6K except its missing the extra PWM outputs the E6K has i must say tho that the E6M was a bad choice buy the original owner as its not handling the current setup very well

last thing i beleave a T3/4 turbo is going to be quite laggy on the CA20
my firned has a VL commodore with a RB20 and T3/4 hybrid and it doesnt make full boost till 4500 rpm but in the same sentance it makes well over 300hp @ wheels

and if your going to drive it everyday T3/4 will be horible to live with

Hmmmm.... First off, I've got a CA18ET harness and ecu. Was planning on snatching a Z31 MAF, and I will be using 450cc DSM injectors with Bart's fuel rail.

As far as the lag, I figured if all the 1.6/1.8 Hondas are running it, it would be fine on my 2.0. I don't know, I'm not dead set on it, and it'll most likely be late this year, or early next year before I even get around to buying a turbo... :mrgreen: I don't think it'll be too easy for me to get ahold of an R33 turbo either... I was just thinking some kind of T3 setup mostly because of availability of parts and such...

Well, got my rods in finally yesterday. Look like their in pretty good shape, but they've been reconned once before, which isn't a real big deal as long as the lengths aren't all screwed up. But even that doesn't matter cause I gotta cut the pistons anyway... :mrgreen:

So, as soon as we get the vertical mill out here at this shop, I'll start hacking em up and see what I can get out of it. I need to cut about .075 off each side, looks like it'll work out pretty good. Then when I recon the rods I'm gonna size em to take a standard Nissan bearing, but I gotta check the Nissan bearings first and make sure the tangs line up OK. Then I gotta save up some money for some Wisecos to hack up... :evillaug:

all the hondas n such do make big power on those turbos but one thing to remmeber is most of them are vtec engines which love to rev
and jsut cos they run them and make big power doesnt mean they wont be laggy :)

try ebay.....
can get some strange things on there

the main thing im getting at is CA20's are not very efficient motors
and will have trouble spinning a big turbo

try ebay.....
can get some strange things on there

the main thing im getting at is CA20's are not very efficient motors
and will have trouble spinning a big turbo
Could always run a supercharger to spool up the large turbo. That would be a sweet setup if it were possible. Run the supercharger in the place of the AC compressor, figure out how to make the de head work on the ca20 motor, and run the biggest turbo you can find. That would probably put down some real good power, if the bottom end holds up.

ok you are my new best thread---

DSM rods -check
DSM injectors-Check

did you say that the DSM pistons would also work? If that is the case I have a shop full of good stuff here.

gettign a supercharger and turbo to work well together is very difficult
not saying it cant be done but it needs to be a very well thought out system

there was a twin charger kit from HKS i think for the 4AGZE corolla which was fwd and used the blower to build low end torque and the turbo was sized large enough to start boosting when the blower was runnign out of steam

not very common but was a real nice setup

No, the DSM pistons won't work, they'd stick up outta the block about 1/2" :rofl: ...

But hopefully the rods will work without a hitch, just like I said, they have to be narrowed .150 to fit the crankshaft. Or if you use the 93-94 rods, I think they only need to be narrowed about .75. I grabbed the big rods cause they're easy to find, and supposedly good to 500hp. But you already know all that since you're a DSMer... :mrgreen:

TuffS12: What do you think about the T3 then? I'm really hoping to get about 300-325 rwhp out of this, you think if I run a 9:1 low boost setup with the T3 I'll make it?

anypics?

Nope, not yet, and I really haven't started doing much, I've just got a big pile of parts basically. I need to get a digi camera BAD! :laugh:

I'll get some pics of the rods next to the CA20 rods, and then some more once I finish modding them. It'll probably be a couple months before I can afford to order the pistons...

9:1 and low boost i dun think is really going to cut it
i have a RB20DET in a local R31 Skyline running 8:1 a T28 and 10-11psi and is making just on 300hp @ flywheel

dont get me wrong i have nothing against CA20E's its jsut that a RB20 is a hell of alot more efficient than a CA20E id be looting more at lower compresion and running somthing around 15-16psi which should get you bloody close
just be careful with gearboxes :)

and if ya interested my stock Gazelle droped the most insane power figure on the dyno yesterday
all 53kw's of it which was pretty impreasive seens its a 83 model has 300,000k's and is running injectors that are about 30% larger than stock *all i had spare when number 4 quit on me* so air fuel ratio's were heading to 8:1 black shit was pouring out of its rear end
hehe

:laugh: Wow...

I'm still curious, OK, if I run 8:1 and 15-16lbs of boost, what turbo do you recommend? What is it that comes on the R33 skylines? Keep in mind, I'm in the US, so Skyline parts aren't easy to find...

I'm gonna disagree here

Low comp ratios and high boost is for dyno queens and drag cars.

Trying to run this setup on a race track would be a bad idea IMHO.

The ca20e makes 102hp in stock trim. Lowering the compression ratio would knock you down to maybe 85 ... and that's not even at the wheels.

An RB is an inline 6 cylinder ... it's going to move a lot more air than a ca20e.

Your best bet to be fast on the track is decent compression, and an effcient turbo.

An efficient turbo will make way more power across the band

Moving big boost on a SOHC will leave you with an eyelash thin power band.

Even with a DOHC head, a small 2.0 will have a hard time keeping a big turbo spinning on a track.

PSi is meaningless ... run 15-16 psi out of what, a T2, T25, T3, T4? And why?

Well, that was my thinking too. Especially since it's gonna be street driven (possible daily driven), and won't be on the racetrack all that much. To me, it seems like a high compression low boost setup gives you great driveability and off boost performance, and with an efficient turbo and intercooler setup, it'll still be able to run on 10-12 lbs boost with no problems...

id like to disagree with you Mr 200
i can show you dyno sheets of my old turbo vs the new turbo and the new turbo is a bigger T28 *R33 Skyline* and the old one was a T25 *R32 Skyline*
now the T28 builds boost about 6-800rpm earlier has a wider power band and made 164rwkw though the auto on 10 psi and the best we got from the T25 was 125rwkw @ 15-16psi old turbos simply cant keep up with new turbos and a R32 turbo is nearly 6 years older than a R33 turbo another susgestion is a S15 ball bearing turbo they are basicly T04 size front wheel with a T25 turbine and are extremly responsive ive seen 180rwkw from a manual S15

now high comp low boost may give you good responce and may sound nice but somthing youve got to remmeber is a S12 is not a heavy car and being manual it wont be long before its on boost

ive seen a Garret GT25 make 174rwkw on a CA18DET in a S13 silvia and the engine was bog stock except for intercooler and exhaust on only 15psi boost
and the power curve and boost curve mimicked the stock setup untill the 3000rpm mark where the GT25 put on 50kw of extra power

high comp and low boost will give you problems in the long run
and by low comp i mean about 8:1
high comp engine will be prone to pinging if not tuned properly
and we all know pinging is a bad thing *after owning a RX7 13B Turbo the ping and droped a apex seal i know how it is*