Does this look normal??

Thought I would pull a couple of spark plugs to see how
they look after 1000 miles with new remanufactured
CA18ET. To my surprise this is what the # 1 intake
plug looks like. The plugs are NGK IX's. Is this normal?
I wouldn't think so......but maybe it is.. on a turbo car?
It's got carbon depoists around the bottom, and the ground
electrode, and center electrode have a redish tint to them.....
which I think might be from additives in the fuel @ the pump.
If it's not normal........what could be the cause? Everything
is brand new!! Only thing I can think of might be adding a mini
filter on the valve cover instead of plumbing back to the intake
tract. I haven't turned up the boost yet, so it's running stock boost.
Also I've noticed more carbon depoists in the muffler tip in the last
100 miles than in the first 900.
Could it be the brand of fuel? The last 2 tanks I used that new
Shell V-power 91%, where as the first 800 miles or so I used Chevron
Tecron 91%.
http://home.sprintmail.com/~locklear/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sparkplug.jpg

detonation, they are too red....i happenend to me, my timing was way off, they are glowing red

NEVER USE SHELL GAS

they have a multi million dollar lawsuit in my region for bad gas they ruined a sending unit on my corolla and the car has never ran right since i filled up with shell

I'm not heaing any detonation, and the timing is set at 15 degrees. One of my service manuals says that redish, rusty appearence is from MMT(anti knock additives in fuel)
The firing area between the center electrode, and side electrode are perfectly clean.
Could only 2 tanks of Shell v-power do this?

burn out the shell gas and put some new plugs in and go with mobil or bp

If it is the Shell gas......will the depoists burn off of the plugs with a different fuel? I just paid a good amount of $$ for these NGK Iridiums, and I'd hate to trash them with only 1000 miles on them....or better yet clean them. I just cleaned the one in the pic above, and it all came perfectly clean using a stiff brush.

Actually, a plug with a slight brownish-reddish tone is EXACTLY what you're looking for on a spark plug. That indicates a good burn and a good heat range in the cylinder. The thing that concerns me on that plug is what looks to be pitting on the ground electrode. That indicates possible detonation. You don't always hear detonation. In fact, if you CAN hear it, it's too late. Damage is done.

Well.....just for kicks I just went out and pulled a plug from my bone stock '95 Maxima, which has about 15,000 miles on it's Denso Iridium plugs. These plugs look nothing like my 1000 mile plugs in my s12. The Maxima ones are perfectly clean!! I have also been using the Shell V-power in it as well, so I doubt it's the gas causing it.
What else could it be? Remember everything including the motor is brand new.
How about the Bosch O2 sensor? I've given up hope with all other Bosch products, so maybe this?
Or what about the mini cone filter on the valve cover instead of plumbing it back to the intake tract? Would this make it run rich?
Is the air/fuel mixture adjustable? The ecu makes the adjustments...right?
If it's detonation......what would cause it? I'm running stock boost, and the timing is at 15 degrees.

Well, at this point I don't know what to tell you. I've never once seen a plug come out of a car that was perfectly clean, especially after 15,000 miles, so are you sure your Maxima is actually running? LOL Just kidding. Anyway, IF you are detonating, a lean condition or running too hot are the major causes. If an o2 sensor fails, it will always default to a rich condition. That won't make you detonate. Water temps good, etc.? You may not be detonation - but like I said, the what looks to be pitting on the ground electrode would make me raise an eyebrow.

It doesn't look to bad to me, all my plugs look very similar except the colour they go is more tan. Additives in the fuel can change the colour of your plugs but i'm not sure by how much. They will change to other colours rapidly if conditions change to so you can tell pretty quickly if any changes you made are having an effect.

Yeah....I was pretty surprised too by the Maxima plug that I pulled out. I wasn't expecting it to be shiney clean!! Maybe because they are iridiums?? I dunno. Maybe turbo plugs get dirty quicker than NA engines?
Everything on the S12 seems to running fine. I put a 180 degree t-stat in with the new engine, and the gauge always stays well below halfway. It idles perfect. No smoke anytime.
I did notice none of the rich smell or carbon deposits in the tail pipe started until AFTER the break-in period......which is when I started laying into the throttle a little bit. During the break-in, I babbied the hell out of it!!
I think I will take off that valve cover filter, and put on the hose that connects the intake tract for a week or so, and see if symptoms start going away.
Anything else I should try?

Well, I just took off the mini cone breather filter on the valve cover, and replaced it with a hose to connect back down to the intake pipe. I'll try it for a while, and see if things clear up. I read a in a thread somewhere a while back that was talking about when using a breather filter it causes the car to run rich due to un-metered air??

Not sure about the running rich with the breather filter. I have the same NGK iridiums in my 85 turbo and i'll take a look at how they are doing once i get some more miles on them. My old plugs were ngk v powers and they just had some black carbon deposits on them from running rich and being driven mostly short trips. I use the shell v-power 93 octane and haven't had a problem with it. I've found it gives much better throttle response than other 93 octane fuels i've used.

A car will run lean if there is un-metered air....

hmmmm.....I thought it was the other way around? Rich if it was unmetered....like when using a bov.
Anyway....I am pulling straws trying to think of what would cause the sootyness on the plugs of a brand new motor.....so starting with re-plumbing the valve cover was a start.
I'm open for suggestions :dontknow:

It's only rich with a BOV because the BOV is throwing air OUT of the mixture. IF the valve cover is sucking IN unmetered air, then it is ADDING it to the mix, which would cause a lean condition.

The valve cover blows out air, I believe....not suck in. With nothing on there, and the car idling you can feel air pulsating out of the connector on the valve cover. This is the reason to use a breather filter.....to keep oil out of the intake tract.....right? So essentially then.....it causes a rich condition using a breather filter not lean.

You want your plugs to be a sort of greyish color if everything is perfect. I'm not sure on the additives though... The valve cover doesn't blow or suck air. The reason the breather is there is because it's part of the PCV system. This fills the crankcase with vacuum to make a better ring seal, and the breather is just part of that system. The only reason the breather is tied into the stock intake is because of emissions issues. That shouldn't make a difference for running rich/lean or whatever.

The PCV system doesn't have anything to do with metered air like what you're talking about. The BOV is part of the metered air. The air that comes in through your mass air system is not running through the crankcase.

The mechanic next door to our shop used to be a Nissan mechanic, and he said he's seen people have trouble with the Bosch O2 sensors, so you could be right on that issue. I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the valve cover breather...

I dunno about valve cover nipple not doing anything......because mine sure pulsates air out at idle.......so to me thats air being missed since it's not getting re-circulated back to the intake tract. Don't know if it's enough to cause my problems.....but I put the stock hose back on to see if things change over the next few weeks.
Now on the Bosch O2 sensor.....it's coming out and being replaced with a NGK one. Everything I've ever used on this from Bosch has ended up being nothing but a piece of shit, and a waste of money.

The air coming out has nothing to do with the intake air. If you're losing intake air into the valvecover, you have some serious head problems.

An if you put that line back into the air intake, get ready to scrub your IC, turbo, etc etc etc.

Is this the first run on the new engine? Because if so, it could just be some assembly lube.

That's why after you rebuild a motor, you install a set of throwaway plugs for the break in.

Finish the break in, change the oil, change the plugs.

Yeah.....this is the first set of plugs with the new engine....and I have just over 1000 miles on it now. I've changed the oil and filter twice now...at 500 mile intervals....might be an over kill, but according to the engine remanufacture company, i'm suppose to change the oil and filter every 500 miles until I reach 3000, then I can introduce syn. blend @ 3k, run it till I hit 6k, then introduce full syn. and change every 3k from there.
I'm not losing air into the valve cover....I was only stating there are puffs of air when you hold your finger up to the spout on the valve cover where the breather filter goes @ idle.....did this with my old motor, and does it with my new one.

IF the valve cover is sucking IN unmetered air, then it is ADDING it to the mix, which would cause a lean condition.

the thing is the air breather valve is for the positive crank ventalation which when hooked back inot the intake will suck the blow by thru the rings back inot the intake so you dont get a explosion in teh crank case.. if you have a filter to atmoshere this will not affect in any way if the car will run rich or lean...

ditto with matt. i bet is teh assmebly lube that was all over your engine when you got it it probably had some extra anti rust properties which could have caused this prob

As long as you remember to block up the hole in the intake pipe work. :D

I've never heard of an engine being hurt by too many oil changes, only not enough ;)

On a new motor, no I don't think it's overkill at all. How you break in an engine will pretty much determine the rest of its life.

But yeah, I think my point was getting lost. Yes, it is normal to have air pulses coming out of the breather. But no, it won't make you run rich or lean or anything. That air is coming out of your crankcase, not the intake or head.

The MAF is clueless to that air.

Some places go nuts with assembly lube. I personally probably don't use enough.

Clean the plugs with a wire brush and some gasoline. Change the oil, run it another 500 miles and check them again. If the car is running well, I woudln't worry about it all.

Thanks, for all the info......I do remember when I got the new long block there was red assy. lube everywhere....mostly in the collector bag strapped to the bottom, but all in the head too. So maybe that is all that is on the plugs.....I hope so.
Also, I remember the first 30 miles or so....it smoked like crazy!! But I think that was leftover oil in the exhaust pipe from when the old motor's piston rings took a crap......maybe not though. Maybe it was al little of both??
By anymeans.....I'll put the breather filter back on, and take your advice and clean all the plugs, and change the oil....and see what they look like in another 500

The assembly lube will make it smoke, and when you put a motor together, you usually put oil (or in your case, they might have used assembly lube) on the cylinder walls, so it takes a little bit to burn it off. I don't really use assembly lube except on camshafts, but some builders use it all OVER the place. Same with black permatex, some builders use a whole tube putting a motor together... :no:

No permatex gooing out anywhere that I could tell. The long block is from Jasper Motors out of the midwest somewhere....and i've heard nothing but good things about the company......so hopefully they built it right. If not I got the 3 yr/75k nationwide warranty that came with it to fall back on as needed.

Well, a lot of places go overboard on the assembly lube as a precaution. It's not going to hurt the motor, just smoke for a while.

Try starting a motor that's been upside down for a while if you wanna see smoke ;)

But yeah a few hundred miles should burn all the rest of it off.

How about the soot in the tail pipe, and the rich smell? I wouldn't think assy. lube would cause this.....this long after break-in.
I'm wondering if the bov is causing the spark plugs to look how they are, and causing the soot in the tail pipe, and the rich smell???

well there sould be some oil in your exhaust itself that is slowly burning off and causing the soot.. as far as the rich smell it could be a sensor somewhere cause it cant be the bov cause if it was leaking you'd be running really lean and basicallyl idleing like crap

All sensors are new, except det. sensor, IAA, and injectors, and regulator.
What about when the bov vents between shifts? This causes a rich condition...right?

yes only becuase there is positive pressure in your intake track. but at idle you have vacum and if the bov is open it will such in air making you run lean

Nope.....idles perfect.....So venting between shifts wouldn't cause soot in the tail pipe over time? Any idea which sensors would cause a rich condition?
It deffenitly smells rich....to the point when I pull it in the garage, and shut it down....and I get out and go in the house, I can smell it on my clothes.....and I gotta change, because the "better half" can't stand the smell.
See what you got to look foward to Bart. lol

Didn't you say you had a bosch O2 senser, that could be whats doing it. Or the O2 is contaminated from all that lube thats being burned. Another sensor to check if its running rich would be the temp sensor.

Edit: Did you adjust the Maf any with the old engine and maybe not set it back with the new one?

ya i think you are onto something.. the oil would corrode the o2 sensor quite quickly.. thatd be the first thing to change

I've never messed with the maf other than replacing it with a new one from Nissan about 3 years ago. How do you adjust it? Seems like the fsm shows drilling a hole under that black cap to expose an adjusting screw? I shouldn't need to adjust it since it's adjusted from the factory......right?
Can the o2 sensor be cleaned at all....with it only having 1200-1300 miles on it...or would I just be wasting my time?? But yeah....I agree, if it's all gunked up with oil...this could be the cause. I may pull it, and take a peek

I strongly recommend the NGK NTK oxygen sensors over that Bosch one. Even if it is working correctly it may not last very long. My last new bosch sensor lasted only about 6000 miles and failed causing a such rich condition and the car was undriveable until i pulled the harness connector to it. I put a new NGK unit in and it seems to give the car more response than i recall the bosch one doing when it was new. Not to mention if you compare the 2 side by side you can see the better quality in the NGK unit in that the sensor tip has more holes in it while the bosch one only has 3 little slits.

Yeah...........I think I'll go ahead and order a NGK one. I had one with the old motor, and probably should of got another one with the new motor.....don't know what possessed me to get the Bosch one.....especially since the NGK one is currently only $49.00 from sparkplugs.com, and I think it's cheaper than what I paid for on the bosch.

Well, I got my new ngk o2 sensor today, so I pulled out the bosch unit. It has the same rusty color with a little soot like the above pic of the spark plug.

For kicks I checked the resistance on both the old Bosch and the new ngk o2 sensors.
The old bosch was 3.8-3.9
The new ngk was 7.6-7.7
Now the fsm says it should be 2.8 Now they are both over, and the brand new never been used ngk one was WAY high.......is this ok?
Only thing I could think might raise it was that I measured it in the car screwed into the turbo elbow, where as the bosch one I measured laying on the floor.
The FSM also shows meauring out of the car as well. Could that make it that much different?

might be that the #'s the fsm has is oriented for bosch o2 since ngk wasnt around or concidered oem replacement sensors back when our cars came out

Sooo, I shouldn't be concerned about the high resistance of the NGK? Thats quite a bit higher than what the fsm says.
What brand came from the factory in the S12? Surley it wasn't Bosch??

most likely nippon denso.

The resistance was taken from the two terminals on the opposite ends right? If so that's the heating element for the O2 sensor. It doesn't really do anything with the sensors reading but if the heating element goes out the car will run in open loop longer.

As far as the resistance goes. I wouldn't worry about it. The greater resistance could be an indicator of the effectiveness of the heating element in the O2 sensor. So the NGK sesnor could be better than the Bosch one.

I have an NGK one too. It already has 1400 miles on it and i don't have any problems (in fact it solved some). So in my opinion the NGK is fine

Yeah........the readings I took were from the two outer terminals.
Cool....so i'll get everything put back together tomorrow, and run it for another 500 miles, and check the plugs.
I just wanted to see what you guys thought about the high resistance on the o2 sensor if that sounded normal or not.......but what you said makes sense.
Thanks for the help

Just got all the plugs cleaned and everything put back together with the new o2 sensor....and all ready the car doesn't smell rich anymore, and the black color in the muffler tip.....is slowly turning gray....and i've only driven it like 20 miles :mike: Hopefully this will take care of the problem.....I'll check the plugs @ 500 miles and see how they look.
Thanks for the input everyone

You have to use Unocal 76 gasoline. ALL OTHERS MIX UP TO (MEANING THEY DO) 10% ETHENOL into the gas. ETHENOL MAKES NO POWER WHEN BURNED. IT ALSO SUPER HEATS, AND DETONATES. IF YOU HAVE A TURBO CAR, ONLY USE 76, they do not put ethanol in their fuel

***Appleis only to california****

ya 76 is the best but they are stopping most of there race fuels since they lost the bid in nascar for being the fuel of choice

grey means your running rich, and the burgandy color is from detonation from running rich, TRUST ME, but hopefully your new 02 sensor helps the cause

grey means your running rich, and the burgandy color is from detonation from running rich, TRUST ME, but hopefully your new 02 sensor helps the cause
unless you run race gas.. basically anything over 100octane thats leaded your tail pipe will turn white if you are burning the gas properly.. just a bit of info many might not know

grey means your running rich, and the burgandy color is from detonation from running rich, TRUST ME, but hopefully your new 02 sensor helps the cause
According to my Chilton book it says reddish rusty apperance plugs are caused by MMT in fuel....which is an anti-knock additive in the gas...and will not affect plug performance. They looked just like the picture in the book.
The engine couldn't possibly had detonation. I was running stock boost during the break-in period, and I even kept the boost under like 2 psi.
I'm hoping that problem was caused by the red assy lube that was flooding the engine when I put it together. Time will tell. I think I will go by a 76 station and see if there is not a label on the pump about ethenol.
Most stations around here do have a label saying there is ethenol in the gas....but I haven't tried 76 yet.