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HOW to...ca18det

Started by craigcd · Aug 11, 2004 · 64postsInvision 2005–09vBulletin 2004–05

craigcddate not saved · #1

you getting a red top sr right?

it works for both engines fine, it's the same damn thing

i will post exactly what you have to do. Most of you will be able to do it in 1 hour or less....
took me long because i had to study do and redo..... come on do it yourself
clean the engine bay? I thought i was clean LMAO......it is cleaner than my interior for sure!

Yaa i have the SRredtop installed and 75% wired. Yaa i like your interior liutterd with Canadian Tire bags as is mine, or was i cleaned it befor i took it to the shop :razz:

I will post a pic up of my brothers SR just gotta resize it to point out the rad problem.

Craig

Euroboydate not saved · #2

yeah i will get to that
i have been kinda busy lately not much time to do anything
i will let you know what to connect and not connect

Euroboydate not saved · #3

well if i were to do it again it would take me 2 days by myself
it's just that easy the second time around.......

Nu-Deldate not saved · #4

hey man

just slotted my CA18DET in today but the wireing is confusing the hell out of me even after looking at a S12 wireing diagrame nissan gave me it still makes no sence

which wires on the S12 join to which on the S13 loom cause ive found all the wires on the S13 loom you say to mark but i cant work out which wired on the S12 to join them to

thanks heaps in advance

Umai Naadate not saved · #5

Using RB20 PArts you can make the mechanical speedo work.

erm... which RB20 parts??

SHEPPO3930date not saved · #6

euroboy,

those wires u mentioned on ya first post, they are on the ones needed to get the engine loom to "talk" to the car's loom?? Is so, are they the only ones i need to hook up and she'll start??

my ca20e has had its last drive today, time for DET power!

any help for wiring, PM me or email [email removed]

thanks.

Euroboydate not saved · #7

yeah sheppo
there are 2 plugs from the det harness that connect there on the turbo side/intake side of the car....
there are about 10-12 wires you need to connect in order to make it run as well as 4-5 wires BY the ecu that connects to the car's harness as well...
i will tell you my fuel pump connection since it weird as hell and if you can find a better way let me know LOL

SHEPPO3930date not saved · #8

can someone explain to me how the mount set up works for this conversion. i have just removed my ca20e, and noticed that the mounts use a 2 bolt (into the block) set up, and the ca18det uses 3 bolts (into the block) on each mount.

now do i use the entire ca18det mount all the way into the cross member? as they look like they'll go into the S12 x-member no worries. But i was told by numerous ppl that the mounts were a bolt up the the new engine, and ca20e ones can be used.....so can someone shed some light on the situation.

now if i have to use the entire s13 mount, i have to unbolt the CA20e mount from the cross member, hows that done as there aint much room for tools!

any help would be........well...........helpfull :)

cheers.

FLY PSIdate not saved · #9

When we did mine, we unbloted the mount from the x-member with a modified spanner (I used one that Neb made for his engine swap) then i just unbolted the metal parts of the mounts from the CA20 and bolted them onto the CA18 then we droped the CA18 into the engine bay, it took al ofabout 2hrs to unplug everything from the CA20 and get it out of the ca to having the CA18 sitting into position.

I hope this is alittle helpful

Euroboydate not saved · #10

can someone explain to me how the mount set up works for this conversion. i have just removed my ca20e, and noticed that the mounts use a 2 bolt (into the block) set up, and the ca18det uses 3 bolts (into the block) on each mount.

now do i use the entire ca18det mount all the way into the cross member? as they look like they'll go into the S12 x-member no worries. But i was told by numerous ppl that the mounts were a bolt up the the new engine, and ca20e ones can be used.....so can someone shed some light on the situation.

now if i have to use the entire s13 mount, i have to unbolt the CA20e mount from the cross member, hows that done as there aint much room for tools!

any help would be........well...........helpfull :)

cheers.

yes it's a pita removing those mounts man...
i say take the brackets off the ca20e and put them on the det block and just do it that way....
some times if those bolts are too rusted you will need to take the crossmember our(not freaking worth it LOL)
me i had to use a mix mounts since one was ripped so i used the det one on one side
you don't need spacer just put it there and make sure you tight the living hell out of it and you will be fine(some ghetto techniques) but they work!

SHEPPO3930date not saved · #11

i am going to use S13 mounts...

read my thread "MY ca18det" for todays drama's!

SHEPPO3930date not saved · #12

Well i recomend changing all coolan hoses in hard to access places, as this is what happened to mine 10seconds before it was spose to go onto the dyno:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/SHEPPO3930/splithose.jpg

^^^if that pic worked, thats a split hose from under the inlet manifold, it took about an hour to get off, then find a replacement, then refit. if you dont wanna go through this drama (as it is a really hard spot to access), change all the hoses before you put the engine in!

Umai Naadate not saved · #13

word to that.

iqudate not saved · #14

about those mounts

I dropped down the whole crossmember cause i could not figure out how the heck you bolt something that has 3 bolts to something that has 2 bolts

i'd like some pictures of those mixing and matching mounts....

now im trying to get the dang engine to bolt on the transmission while it is still bolted on... spent a hour on it and no go...will be loosening the transmission bolts

about the wiring...

only thing i see that actually connects to the car itself is the plug that is next to the ecu plug and the other harness that connects to the transmission and a few other plugs....

looks like i'll be cutting the transmission wires because the plugs don't fit
and i have no idea how the ecu wires are connected until i get there...

Scooterdate not saved · #15

hah that happen to me.. that same one... was not that hard to change... would have been alot more simple to change when the engine was out tho

z-driverdate not saved · #16

dude the pic's dont work no more ........

EuroboyAug 11, 2004, 4:52 am · #17

ok long process so here we go i will add more every night!

I have the 1987 nissan 200sx ca18et motor

new engine:ca18det from a 89 180sx clip

First thing! DISCONNECT BATTERY
remove the harness from the 200sx, and please be carefull not to cut and chop it. Remove it a cleanly as you can. Do not touch anything else and mark the plugs where the engine harness connects to the car/lower/electrical harness. Remove the conncetions to the alternator, starter tranny, mark where they go.

Once the wires are out, unbolt the drive shaft at the middle joint. 2 size 17 nuts, a bit rusted so be carefull not to round them off, this is to be done later you can just loosen them a little at this stage. Then with the car placed firmly on 4 stands. Put the car in gear, then with a size 12 wrench unbolt the first of the nuts at the drive shaft, just loosen it. Put the car in neutral, turn the wheel to get access to the next drive shaft bolt. Repeat this process untill all 4 nuts and bolts are out. Now you can safely remove the 2 17 nuts and disconnect the drive shaft in the middle. BUT MAKE SURE YOU MARK IT FOR LATER ALIGNMENT. SOme white paint accross will do. Now drain the oil from the tranny remove the drive shaft at the out put shaft just pull it out and a rubber melot if need be but it should come out easy, drain engine oil, coolant. Disconnet the rad and remove it. Disconnect the fan and remove. SAVE the bolts! AND REMOVE ALL THE VACCUM LINES, fuel lines that attach into the engine, clutch master ETC. Basically everything

Now you can safely hook up the engine and tranny to a crane. Just loosely hooked up. PLace a stand underneath the tranny or a jack and remove the 4 bolts at the tranny mount. Then remove the bolt nut combo at the engine mounts. Nut can be accesed from top, bolt from underneath, both 12 size wrench.
Now it's time to put some stress on the crane and lift the engine a little until the tranny is loose on the jack. Remove the jack from underneath. And pump the crane up a little. Shake the engine on the side while bringing it up little by little until the engine is clear of the bolts that are on the engine mounts(remember you are removing it with mounts still on the crossmember, be carefull not to tear mounts if you will reuse them)
Once the engine is clear keep bringing it up and pull the crane away from the car little by little.
Once the engine is out, take a breath, drink a beer and relax for a little.

Next you can clean now all you want in the engine bay, remove mounts if you want to change them when the new engine is dropped in etc. Personal preferences come into play, paint, cleaning etc.

Now it's time to turn to the clip. Make sure the clip is well off the ground. I put the front wheels on mine and raised it up with stands on the back.
Remove the harness and ECU as cleanly as you possibly can(# and mark everything you take off is HIGHLY reccomemded). Grab all the relays if you have a clip(will come in handy later).
Remove vaccum lines, plugs to the tranny etc. Then if you chose to use the 180sx mounts then unbolt the engine from the mounts. If you want your stock mounts then remove it from the bracket. Either way it's easy.
Remove the tranny mount making sure you have a jack under the tranny. Hook up the crane and the same idea of removing an engine follows as when removing the ca18et engine.

Once both engines are down then you have to make 2 decisions
if you will use stock 200sx mounts then swap the engine brackets with the ca18det. If not then you already have removed the stock mounts then don't worry about it.
Next if you will be using the DET tranny then you need some costum work which i can't help you with since i didn't do it.

I just swapped the trannies together, make sure the slave cylinder is fine, and use an alignment tool just in case to check the clutch hasn't moved while removing it. Bolt the et tranny to the det engine.

Now with a friend lift the new CA18DET engine with ca18et tranny bolted to it on a crane and walk over to the 200sx. Lift it up and someone will have to lower the tranny part while the second guy is pushing the crane towards the car and lowering the crane a little. Carefull not to scrape the firewall and hit the brake booster.
Once the engine is in it will be a lot of fiddleing around to put the engine into the right groove and finding those little holes can be a PITA but they are doable so have some patience!
Now that the engine is in place a jack under the tranny and pump it up. Bolt down the tranny mount loosely and the engine bolts. See if everything is right then bolt down them tightly.
Bolt down the clutch master make sure it's fine, bleed the system and test it.
Put the drive shaft output into the tranny and hit it with a rubber melot until it's in.
The 200sx should be still on 4 stands. Bolt loosely the driveshaft U joint to the body and losely connect the 2 pieces of driveshaft, REMEMBERING TO ALIGN THEM. Then the reverse process of taking the bolts off applies here to put them on. SHOULDN"T BE much trouble.

Next after the engine and tranny are properly bolted down get the ca18det harness and connect everything to the intake mani plugs as you # them before. The det harness has a big U so undo that to make it long and to actually route it the same way the et tranny went into the cabin. Via left front fender. IT IS LONG ENOUGH IF YOU OPEN IT. Make sure you tape it with some electrical tape or whatever.
Connect the wires to the alternator starter, plug the plugs at the tranny etc. At this point, fill the engine with some OIL, connect the fuel line because the fp will be working(yes i know it is weird but it does) and give it a crank. It should crank. If not check the connection to the starter and make sure bat is full.
Once done this disconnect the battery.
Connect the vaccum lines if you are worried about emissions and the brake booster.

Now where the det harness used to connect with the 180sx car harness there is a big plug there. CUT THAT PLUG and expose the wires. I don't have ac in my car so i didn't worry about it.

YOU should find the wires mentioned below. MARK THEM

Black / Pink stripe
Fuel Pump Relay

Green / Orange stripe
Transmission Neutral Sensor

Red / Black stripe
ECU Relay

Green / Yellow stripe
AC Relay

Red
ECU Backup Power

Black / Red & Blue / Red (Note: connect 2 wires to 1)
Main Ignition Power

Black / White stripe
ECU Power

Blue / Green stripe
AC Relay

Black / Yellow stripe
Idle Air Control Valve Power

Brown (to O2 sensor)
O2 Sensor Power
Any 12v switched source

Going to the ecu and where the harness close to the ecu connects to the car harness the following wires will be needed. Cut the det plug there.

Yellow / Red stripe
Tachometer signal

Yellow / Green stripe
Speedometer signal

Orange
Ignition start

Black
Ground

Blue / Green stripe
AC signal

Blue / Black stripe
Water temp signal

You should find those wires and mark them.

Ok this is it for tonight, as i am a bit tired, i will resume this tomorrow and in the following days pics will come.

ps: there will be some spelling mistakes, and please add if i forgot something.

I would ask the admins to make this a sticky since it will give even what wire connects to what wire and what to do until the end. THANKS!
Bess

NebuchernezzerAug 11, 2004, 5:07 am · #18

Good work, one thing i'd add is that it's not nessessary to remove the loom from the CA18DET to take it out of the front cut, you can drag the whole loom out of the shell and pile it on top of the motor, still entirely connected to the engine, that's what i did so i could get the engine out ASAP and get rid of what was left of the 180sx shell from my yard.

Alex FrostAug 11, 2004, 1:55 pm · #19

So Euroboy, does this mean that your S12 is back up and running?? If so maybe we should gather the conlogne of leppers together (as Matt would say) and do a meet so that we can all see the DET. 8)

EuroboyAug 11, 2004, 3:13 pm · #20

yes the car is up and running
i am just trying to find some elbow 90degree and 45 degree for the intercooler piping.
No where to be found and i don't really wanna spend 60buck per piece at some performance story.
Anyone knows where i can get some galvanized, metal? anything that can handle the pressure will do at this point.

Mr.200Aug 11, 2004, 3:57 pm · #21

Depends on what you want Bess.
If all you need are the bends, I can get them for you in aluminum, 45 and 90 degree for about $20 each.
I think Performance Improvements sells silicone elbows for pretty cheap too. I bought a reducer/coupler from them, and it was under $20 (to replace the one I gave you ;) )

Nice write up man ... very well done. Can't wait to see this thing running. Wow, we might get 4 cars to a meet
you can order them through Keystone too, I can get you the page and part #, and all you have to do is walk into Canadian Tire and order it.

I'll need to know what inner diameter you need though.

bizzaroAug 11, 2004, 5:00 pm · #22

Woo! good job euroboy! I think this will help me a grip. My clip arrives today(double woo), and I'm gonna pull the det before the et just so I can do some routine stuff to the det. Hope you can get some pics up....I know I'm gonna fill both memory cards in my camera before the swap is done.

Mr. 200: I'm in need of some bends as well, can you get them in 2.75?

Mr.200Aug 11, 2004, 6:50 pm · #23

heh, I was only offering them to Bess because he couldn't find them, and we live in the same town *lol*

Whatever I could save on them for you would be lost in shipping.

Sx DrifterAug 14, 2004, 5:34 pm · #24

i will be performing this conversion befor long... so any pics of the process will be greatly appreciated

bizzaroAug 15, 2004, 9:31 am · #25

I've got a thread in the coffee shop with pics, but nothing too helpful yet. I think I'm gonna do a bit of a write up myself.....I'm starting by pulling the motor from the clip first....mine did not come with suspension, so jacking it off the pallet will be tricky.....I started by removing the radiator and intercooler pipes(most of em anyway)......not much else to say so far. Oh, getting a Silver ink pen has been very helpful.

craigcdAug 15, 2004, 11:49 pm · #26

Looks awesome Euroboy, finally somebody willing to share information! Cant wait to see some pics, will be another 2 weeks appx befor im up and running took 10 days holiday kinda set me behind.

BTW thanks for the detailed wiring list.

bizzaroAug 21, 2004, 10:20 pm · #27

Any pics/new info on the swapage?

EuroboyAug 21, 2004, 10:42 pm · #28

should be comming this week, hard enough to find a digi let alone instal the driver etc etc
they are comming though

turbosteveAug 23, 2004, 10:35 am · #29

The conversion from ca20 to ca18det is a direct bolt which makes it the perfect conversoin for the first timer, as i was. Although i used aftermarket computer which made wiring a little simpler than trying to read japanese.
good luck to all who do it. you will be happy with the results.

bizzaroAug 23, 2004, 5:48 pm · #30

Wow another cadet'er. Got any pics of your car?

Nu-DelAug 30, 2004, 7:54 pm · #31

OMG ive been looking for one of these for ages im about to start the same conversion in about 2 weeks

HUGE thanks go out to Euroboy

EuroboyAug 30, 2004, 8:22 pm · #32

well done my ic piping, thanks to home depot LMAO
i got a big scare today, one of the fuses blew and the car wouldn't start. I checked the fuses but i missed the last row since the fuse panel had slid down. What do you know 3.5 hours of checking and rechecking then after that i just gave it power directly clicking the relay and it started. MIND you i was puzzled :) Then i went there and checked the god damn fuse, and fixed it. Car run for about 20 min, runs good, a lot of bugs that are robbing me power right now, but soon things to change, slowly but surely.....

pics comming up!

EuroboyAug 31, 2004, 1:49 am · #33

ok here are some pics
hope they help i am tired tonight but i will do what wire connects to what in a couple of days. Still a lot of bugs with the car but it runs good!

[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000058.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000061.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000062.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000063.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000065.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000066.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000067.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000068.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000069.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000070.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000072.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000073.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000074.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000075.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000076.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000077.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000078.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000079.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000080.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000081.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000082.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000083.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000084.jpg
[url]http://usera.imagecave.com/euroboy416/Im000085.jpg

they should work!

craigcdAug 31, 2004, 3:52 am · #34

Looks good man, time to clean and polish that engine bay!! Weird how how your rad hooks directly up where in a SR you have to pipe it across to the driverside.

That wiring looks insane, that is why i am getting mine done for me worth the money and save the head ache!!

EuroboyAug 31, 2004, 4:15 am · #35

you getting a red top sr right?

it works for both engines fine, it's the same damn thing

i will post exactly what you have to do. Most of you will be able to do it in 1 hour or less....
took me long because i had to study do and redo..... come on do it yourself
clean the engine bay? I thought i was clean LMAO......it is cleaner than my interior for sure!

EuroboyAug 31, 2004, 4:20 am · #36

btw who here knows what color is the tach wire??????
for an 87 turbo model?
thanks!

DrifterAug 31, 2004, 4:21 pm · #37

Thats right, HUGE thanks to Euroboy. Nobody wanted to share the info on how to do the swap on this board. Mainly because they didn't do the swap, still dont know how to, but paid someone else to do it for them. I helped him with doing all the mechanical work ie pulling and installing the engine but wasn't in Toronto to help him with the wiring, he did all that by himself so major props buddy. I am eager to go for a ride when I get back.

craigcdAug 31, 2004, 5:47 pm · #38
Euroboyyou getting a red top sr right?

it works for both engines fine, it's the same damn thing

i will post exactly what you have to do.  Most of you will be able to do it in 1 hour or less....
took me long because i had to study do and redo..... come on do it yourself
clean the engine bay? I thought i was clean LMAO......it is cleaner than my interior for sure!


Yaa i have the SRredtop installed and 75% wired. Yaa i like your interior liutterd with Canadian Tire bags as is mine, or was i cleaned it befor i took it to the shop :razz:

I will post a pic up of my brothers SR just gotta resize it to point out the rad problem.

Craig
craigcdAug 31, 2004, 5:51 pm · #39

Cant see it working any other way?

EuroboyAug 31, 2004, 11:01 pm · #40

the rad seems ine to me just some extentention hose and you done. Pretty easy....
well i am glad you have 75 % of the wiring done but it's the last 25% which was the bitch to me too....
well i will post what you have to connect and if you feel you up to the par then go ahead and use it. I hope ppl won't go around spending the money to do the 1 hour wiring later on and pay 200bucks for it!

bizzaroSep 1, 2004, 1:50 am · #41

Hey just a quick question about where to hoist the motor. Did you use the bolt on the intake manifold to lift the motor without using the tranny bolts so you could pull the tranny?(what a crummy sentance) Also did you ever have the ca18det block on an engine stand? If so did the tranny bolts work?

user posted image

Oh and if anybody needs pics of the harness, mine is completely out right now. I could post some if it would be clearer.

EuroboySep 1, 2004, 2:57 am · #42

ummm
i used one on 2 empty bolts on the exhaust side and the other at the back of the cylinder head, how it was shown on the fsm to hoist the det
tranny bolts are fine to be interchangeable, and i really don't get your question so i dunno what exactly you asking. No the engine was never on a stand!

gerrybgSep 1, 2004, 12:23 pm · #43

Re tacho wiring, the sr or ca18det ECU won't run the s12 tacho. Only way its been done for an s12, (the people i know that have done it anyway), is to run 4 diodes, (worth 5 or 10 cents each from an electronics store) off the 4 wires that go from the ignitor to the coil packs, join them together and then run a wire from this to the tacho (guage), signal in wire. Diodes only send power in one direction, so current doesn't flow backwards and stuff up your ignitor etc.
But you must be careful and wire them facing the correct way. Here's a how to from someone whose done it successfully:

".....well used 4x IN4004 diodes connected to the coil side of the ignitor, about 3 inches from the plug is easy enough, then just joined the 4 diodes together on the tacho side and joined that wire straight to the tacho, the stripe on the diodes is towards the tacho (not sure if that is anode or cathode), and there you go....."

craigcdSep 1, 2004, 5:58 pm · #44

From what i have heard it is possible to get the speedo working with using some parts off an RB20, just here say for now. Give me a weekand i will have all the info.

bizzaroSep 1, 2004, 8:46 pm · #45

so yours came with an "engine slinger" (what a cool part name....would make a good name for a speed shop. Engine slingers, heh.) ? It may be a moot point, as I've got a buddy comming over and I'm gonna have him balance the motor as it sits now while I pull the trans.

Oh and about the tranny bolts, I was asking if you used them to attach the motor to the engine stand.

craigcdSep 1, 2004, 9:44 pm · #46

That chain you are using looks pretty light weight Bizzaro.

bizzaroSep 1, 2004, 11:01 pm · #47

Well it handled the motor and tranny without any drama. I may get a larger one for pulling the et. Cheap enough.

Btw on the nico forums they say you need to buy an extra pair of bolts to use an engine stand.....I'll post the sizes when I get them.

craigcdSep 1, 2004, 11:29 pm · #48

Motor stands are universal you can bold how ever you want once you have the tranny off. Bolt size will vary depending on where u bolt from.

craigcdSep 3, 2004, 1:35 am · #49
craigcdFrom what i have heard it is possible to get the speedo working with using some parts off an RB20, just here say for now. Give me a weekand i will have all the info.


Using RB20 PArts you can make the mechanical speedo work.
Sx DrifterSep 13, 2004, 11:53 am · #50

i pulled my DET out using seatbelts i ripped outta my scrapper s13... seatbelts are hella strong :D