Thinking on swaping to a 13B .

Hi am new to this forum , am a proud owner of a S12 84' Ca20e , today i think i might lose the engine , it overheat and it wont start the starter cant move the engine it might be a lose piston or something like that , well its hard to get a s12 engine here where i live , i was thinking on getting a rotary engine and swap it , but i havent seen no one on the net that have done that , so i need some advice or if swaping to a skyline engine is posible that woud be nice to know i know little about this cars , i been working all my life with rotarys .

any advise would be apreciated .

and sorry for my bad english still working on it . :beer:

*edit*Forgot to say welcome to the club.*edit*

I have owned 3 RX7s myself and i truly love rotary engines. For the time and money i would say its way easier to go with a Nissan engine unless you truly want to be different. 13b's are fairly gutless i would have to say a CA20E is probably quicker. Maybe a 13B turbo would be allright but with the amount of customization it really wouldnt be worth it, alot of work for little benefit.

Custom drive shaft
Engine mounts
Tranny
Wiring

There s for sure some stuff im missing as well.

first off, welcome to the club!

it would help if you updated your profile with your location in it, b/c we've got members all over the world, so chances are that there is someone in your neck of the woods..

i would personally say keep a nissan engine in the S12.. but if you know a lot about rotary engines then why not give it a try. it'd be one of a kind, and i'm all about being different from the crowd

i live in Puertorico , like i said i dont know what can be done to the Ca20e engine and for what i have read it cant be turbocharge , plus i first need to see if the block didnt suffer any damage , i have read that nissan made some few 200sx rotarys back in the days , can someone confirm that

i live in Puertorico , like i said i dont know what can be done to the Ca20e engine and for what i have read it cant be turbocharge , plus i first need to see if the block didnt suffer any damage , i have read that nissan made some few 200sx rotarys back in the days , can someone confirm that

As far as i know the only cars to ever have rotary engines would be RX7 i think RX3's??(cant remember the number, just how it looks), and now RX8's besides some boats and of course airplanes i think thats it.

I am 100% positive there was no rotary nissans due to the lack of acceptance that Mazda had with the introduction of the engine. (correct me if im wrong)

You can turbo a CA20e there is a member on the board who has done this with some customization anything can be turbo'd.

Craig

Nissan was experimenting with rotary engines back in the late 70's and early 80's if i'm not mistaken. However i do not believe any made it into actual production vehicles.

Nissan DID experiment with the rotary engines, but VERY few made it off the production line. If you ever find one, KEEP it. Its worth a pretty penny. Mazda was the pioneer and still user of the rotary as we know it with the 13B, 20B, and 26B Formula F1 engine. The rx-8 uses the new 13B Renesis engine.

As for turbocharged CA20E's...your talking to one of the few...if only....that has done it. It had a pretty pricetag of about 4K worth of custom parts and new parts, but its worth every penny of it. My suggestion, get your hands on another Nissan engine thats a turbo and drop it in. Or with a little time and parience and ALOT of $$, go ahead and drop in a 13B. If I could, I would. Would be one hell of a machine. All I can say is 11K RPM is not uncomming for a rotary to hit! Thats always fun. And with a turbo...:) Good luck man.

As for turbocharged CA20E's...your talking to one of the few...if only....that has done it. It had a pretty pricetag of about 4K worth of custom parts and new parts, but its worth every penny of it.

OMG 4 Grand? Why so much? Did you rebuild your CA at the same time?

rebuild....that isnt even a word in my book. Wanna see the ENTIRE pricetag on why it took 4 grand. Just take a look.

http://www.club-s12.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6165

man get the 13b in there.. that thing would scream like no other, and man when you poped the hood and people saw a 13b in there.. man that would be sweet

13b's are fairly gutless i would have to say a CA20E is probably quicker.
Thats hard to believe i'm afraid, i reckon it would be a good project especially with a post series V RX7 motor, i'm told (i'm far from knowledgeble) that the earlier 13Bs were a little weak in the apex seal department. Go the turbo rotor is my opinion, you might even be able to get the thing to fit behind the front axle to, got to be good for your weight distribution.
Going from memory the S11 silvia/gazelle had a rotor similar to the mazda 10A as an engine option very rare apparently, i remember reading about it aaaages ago.

Thats hard to believe i'm afraid, i reckon it would be a good project especially with a post series V RX7 motor, i'm told (i'm far from knowledgeble) that the earlier 13Bs were a little weak in the apex seal department. Go the turbo rotor is my opinion, you might even be able to get the thing to fit behind the front axle to, got to be good for your weight distribution.
Going from memory the S11 silvia/gazelle had a rotor similar to the mazda 10A as an engine option very rare apparently, i remember reading about it aaaages ago.

I have owned 3 RX7's 2 with 12A's and 1 with a 13B N/A. My 88 with the 13B i had racing beat header, presilencer and ApexiN1 mufflers, and a intake. I know they are minor mods but racing beat makes the best rotary bolt ons and the combination is supposed to give you 15-20HP.(See the dynos on there website). Dont get me wrong it was a decently fast hi revving car but acceleration on rotary engines isnt the best. I remember getting slaughterd by a V6 Precidia......

If you were to go 13B i would say go turbo to begin with , to save the disappointment. I had a friend with a 10AE Turbo 2 and it was night and day different.

If you were going to do something different, you will be better off starting with the best platform possible.

check this site out.

www.rx7club.com

Very knowledgable people.

A: welcome to the club.

B: We've already done a 13b swap, and it was a yawn. IF you know how to drop the 13b into a 510, it's basically the same thing. If you have a coupe (preffered) i would put it in that, because of the lower weight than the hatch. Remember you have to completely remove the mounts and slot the crossmember. finding 12v switched and unswitched is pretty easy to find on these vehicles too!

Good luck.

A 13B would be awesome. Especially if you have worked on the rotaries before you should not have a lot of problems. The main areas to look out for are the electrical bits, and the drive train. Not that our cars have problems with either, it is just that they can be a PITA to change stuff. You may find that a custom drive shaft will have to be made, and you will probably have to use the tranny from an RX-7, because I am not sure that our tranny would bolt to a Rotary. Also your car has solid axle with drums (unless somebody has changed it) and therefore if you don't want to make a custom drive shaft you may have to use the rear diff from an RX_7 as well. This project would take a lot of thought, and you will most likely run into some obsticles, but it would be very cool if it is possible. 8)

As far as the Nissan Rotary goes I believe it was put in the S10, and they had no real success with it, so they came out with the S110 which had I believe a FJ engine in it. The rotary are very rare, and like Alex said if you get one hold on to it.

thank you guys for your interest ,

ok today i open up the head cover of the Ca20e and the oil pan and guess what a lossen piston so am afraid the block is crack too so am going for the 13B Turbo , i was looking at the crossmember and is very similar to the 2nd Gen rx7 , i got a Trubo II engine with trany for $1,500 that i will start modifiying next month cuz am low on money , but my main concern is the real axel , i dont know if it will handle the power i was wondering if a pathfinder real axel fit on that car i know they fit on 1st gen Rx-7 we used here for drag racing they work nice , i dont know whats the final gear or whatever is called of the differential like 4:11 3:75 , 3:50 can someone clear this for me .

BTW the Turbo II trany fit so nicely it almost look like factory there no need to cut the car floor or mod the center console

ahh i almost forgot , i have a severe powersterig leak ,and i dont know were is commig from , is this a comon problem and there a fix out there ?

ahh i almost forgot , i have a severe powersterig leak ,and i dont know were is commig from , is this a comon problem and there a fix out there ?
I've had two big powersteering leaks, one was the hose from the power pump to the rack the flexible bit split and leaked everywhere, the other was the seal where the steering column goesinto the rack, an easy seal to replace after the hard bit which is ripping the rack out.

Ok, lose the solid diff reguardless. the 85.5-88 s12's have an IRS, and prefferably the v6 (or z31 300zx) came equiped the r200 dif. This should be your'e rear end of choice, becuase it is utuilized in everything from the pathfinder to the z33's. (skyline and s13 included). Swap the whole rear subframe w/axles and convert to a 5 lug.

Yeah use the 13b trans, what are you crazy? Cut space in the sheet metal to clear the shifter. Custom driveshaft is a must, 1 peice aluminum?

Dont worry about the p/s untill you have the engine out. THis will make things 100% easier. And you could essentially replace the ps w/steel braided in about 10mins. The system is very basic, and very reliable.

PM me email or visit our website
WWW.RPSPORT.NET

thanks

John

Ok, lose the solid diff reguardless. the 85.5-88 s12's have an IRS, and prefferably the v6 (or z31 300zx) came equiped the r200 dif. This should be

all ca18et had the r200 as well

Ok, lose the solid diff reguardless. the 85.5-88 s12's have an IRS, and prefferably the v6 (or z31 300zx) came equiped the r200 dif. This should be your'e rear end of choice, becuase it is utuilized in everything from the pathfinder to the z33's. (skyline and s13 included). Swap the whole rear subframe w/axles and convert to a 5 lug.
Why?
It's probably easier to fit a early RX7 or similar live axle that is common with LSD, and is 5 stud if you want that to. I can't say the S12 IRS is a great thing cos it's not really, the live axle is just as good provided you don't use a ford 9" or somthing that will give you massive unsprung weight under there. I did do the IRS conversion cos it was cheap and easily available to me but i wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and if i did my car over again it might not even have it.

I agree, the IRS can be a PITA, and the toe in, and camber suck on them. If you can get the diff from a Pathfinder under the car, if would be a descent choice. Everybody keeps ranting, and raving over the IRS, when it too has its problems, and to change to a five bolt isn't necessary, nad depending on what you are going for, it will add a lot of unneeded weight...8) Plus you would have to go through the trouble of finding a V6 model in PuertoRico, which in its own would be a major PITA. Modifying the Solid axle will be the most cost effective, and better for hook up. 8)

:honda: I go to the quarter mile track where i live and i dont know about the rotarys, i mean that would be a cool swap and lots of respect to the engine, but from what ive seen the rotary engines are very unstable. I swear to you, i have not seen(unless a pro)otherwise finish the quarter mile or at the staging lanes without something blowing on them. i dont no i guess you have to be extra precise on tunning the rotarys.

:honda: I go to the quarter mile track where i live and i dont know about the rotarys, i mean that would be a cool swap and lots of respect to the engine, but from what ive seen the rotary engines are very unstable. I swear to you, i have not seen(unless a pro)otherwise finish the quarter mile or at the staging lanes without something blowing on them. i dont no i guess you have to be extra precise on tunning the rotarys.

not to be rude but
ustable humm... it might be but the secret is on the air and fuel mixture , to lean make more heat inside the rotor housing causing it to crack the apex seal , remember this engine use a mixture or air/fuel plus Oil , it has 2 oil injectors that are activated at 3500Rpm , dont understimate a smoking rotary at ide it could be a bridged and ported an it use more oil to lubricate the seal at high RMP :-P

today i call every junkyard and they dont have any S12 OR similar cars i need it woud be very hard to get a rear Dif. from a CA18ET .
is there a kit to mod the solid axle?

but from what ive seen the rotary engines are very unstable
Turbo rotory street drag cars are really popular down here, there are a couple of local guys who have a 13B bridgeport and a 12A turbo who flog them mercilessly (it's a rare weekend when they aren't spotted doing burnouts somewhere haha), if they can make a rotor last with their lack of mechanical sympathy i'm sure you can to.
As far as modding the rear axle goes the only thing i could think of without getting a shop to weld S12 mounts onto another cars diff is to try getting a nismo LSD for the S12 axle, i dunno if you can still get them but thats about the only thing you can do apart from going for a 'CIG locker' (ie weld the diff) which will be a less then perfect compromise. Another thing i just remembered, you might also want to continue the left side chassis rail on the car back as far as the right side rail. The left side rail is shorter than the right so the less re-enforced floor of the car might tear there with a higher powered engine. It's a problem with 910 bluebirds which look similar underneath so it might affect the S12 to.

i hate solid diffs. goddam solid diff put me in coma for 3 days, i wont get over them. You need positive contact on both rear tires, not just ONE. Why dosent it make sense. IRS on s12 having problems....not for long. As well IF you get an R200 just make sure it has LSD type output shafts. After that you will need to identify whether it is 10mm or 12mm. THen you could use any lsd from a j30 to a OS*Giken 32plate..... cool?

Heh guys what kind of valve lash should he run in his 13b (REW i think it'l be a 4 port, no one has scratch for a 6 in a 12)

John

J/K

Uhhh rotary engines don't have valves. They have ports but no valves.

nothing sounds better in my opinion that a periphial port rotary. my friend was stationed in sanfrancisco and he bought a first gen rx-7 that had a 450 hp periphial port / t3t4 hybrid and it sounded like it was going to die unless he was at full throttle. oh and nothing smells like on either.

thank you guys for your interest ,

ok today i open up the head cover of the Ca20e and the oil pan and guess what a lossen piston so am afraid the block is crack too so am going for the 13B Turbo , i was looking at the crossmember and is very similar to the 2nd Gen rx7 , i got a Trubo II engine with trany for $1,500 that i will start modifiying next month cuz am low on money , but my main concern is the real axel , i dont know if it will handle the power i was wondering if a pathfinder real axel fit on that car i know they fit on 1st gen Rx-7 we used here for drag racing they work nice , i dont know whats the final gear or whatever is called of the differential like 4:11 3:75 , 3:50 can someone clear this for me .

BTW the Turbo II trany fit so nicely it almost look like factory there no need to cut the car floor or mod the center console

ahh i almost forgot , i have a severe powersterig leak ,and i dont know were is commig from , is this a comon problem and there a fix out there ?

At present I am in process of repairing a wrecked 94 Pathfinder. The diff ratio 4.6. There may be different ratios that are stock also. Just look at the ID tag on the firewall.

The 13B would be a nice swap. The car should even lose a few pounds of weight too!

Keep the solid rear axle.

Mate, do the 13B turbo conversion. The engine is like 1/2 the length of the CA20E, so its compact and all the weight is up against the firewall (better handelling), rota's are light as, and quite frankly (from an engineering point of view) a far more superiour engine. I rekon that it would be an awsome swap and go for it, i thought about a 20B in an S12 after seeing one in a AE86 and the thing was lethal!!! If you need any help, gimmi a yell. Dont go with the trend as thats not how to get in a car magazine, go different!! Go 13B! :P

hey guys thank u for u support , i didnt think u guys were gona support my idea .

this project is gona take me some time as am doing almost all the work my self plus am low on money , as soon as i get start on the swap i will post some pics

also i working to find a way to get a stifer front suspension .

my engine setup will be :

Rotary engine 13b turbo
TO4H Turbocharger@15psi
street ported
Bridge
overlap
Holley 600cfm marine carb.
intercooler
Jaythec intake manifold
malpassi fuel pump

estimated 1/4 mile time , i hope to touch the 13s

Damn well better touch 13s with that setup, i've run 14.2@104 on street tyres with a stock SR and that setup should kill me.

man that sounds awsome, 13's easy...................if you are running draw-through carbie turbo setup, you cannot use an intercooler incase the engine pops or backfires and ignites the fuel-air in the cooler, however if you wanna run blow-through, the cooler is ok. With the drawthrough you can use methanol (or water) injection to cool the intake charge. Good luck man

There are many good fuel injection systems out there for rotarys, and the 13B's all came injected, I'd just as soon run that. I mean, a new holley carb and intake manifold that fits it cost around $1000 alone, with which you could get a great fuel injected setup. Even if you have a carb sitting around, and can make your own intake mainfold, I still think it would be better to run fuel injected with the kind of boost that I'm sure you'll eventually run. Either way, good choice going with the turbo, I wouldn't advise a 13B N/A into any car that weighs more than 2000 lbs if you are going through the effort to swap it at all. If I ever find a cheap MG, or Triumph I'm going to put my 13B into it.

if you need suspension right away, i can get you JIC's for you're car, but they are gonna be like 2k, because it's one at a time. Keep you're fuel injection, i can get you a power fc for about 700-800. It's very plug and play with the stock harness (later model turbo II right?) and very reliable.

Feel free to contact.

John
www.RPSport.net

I just happen to have a 13b bridgeport 1980 200sx. For right now it puts 200rwhp n/a with a twin weber set up. The car weights right at 2150lbs and goes pretty good. I have a r200 lsd w/4.62's with the 280zx irs. I just fixed the camber problem , I put urathene bushings with a kit to correct the excessive toe out that wore out a new set off tires in less 1500 miles.The car went 14.6 at 98mph with bad wheel hop or bog , only ran 3 times.I need to run again. The car gets alot of looks with the brap-brap=brap.I bet their isn't to many 1980 200sx 13b's out there.....I say go for it, go the road less traveled....Also I have a painless wire set up so old school it will stay. I have pic's . But don't know how to post them, I will send them e-mail ....Dave..