Ka24 V Sr20 V Ca18

Started by CamInHead · Jun 7, 2009 · 39postsSMF 2010–26

CamInHeadJun 7, 2009, 5:06 am · #1

We never got the 2.4 in the UK. The performance N/A were either CA18s or SR20s.
I'm curious how the KA compaires to the SRs and CAs. I presume it's a little less stressed as IIRC it has similar output to the other non-turbos ?

XanoJun 7, 2009, 5:31 am · #2

Bore × Stroke: 89.0 × 96.0 mm (3.50393 in. x 3.77952 in.)
Cubic Inch Displacement: 145cid
Max power: 155 hp @ 5600 rpm
Max torque: 160 ft·lb @ 4400 rpm
Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves

The KA was built with torque in mind, more than HP. Its definitally a good engine.

I can almost garuntee you that the UK has had at least one vehicle with this engine in it. It came in quite a few random vehicles, more trucks than anything else. The Nissan hardbody came with it, as well as some Pathfinders.

Heres some information on models that utilize the KA24 engine.
KA24E
1989–1990 Nissan 240SX
1990–1997 Nissan Hardbody Truck
1990-1995 Nissan Pathfinder
1989–1992 Nissan Axxess
1990–1992 Nissan Stanza (USA-spec)
1989–1992 Nissan Pintara / Ford Corsair

KA24DE
2000-2004 Nissan Xterra
1998-2004 Nissan Frontier
1993-2001 Nissan Altima
1991-1998 Nissan 240SX
1997-2000 Nissan R'nessa (4WD model, Japan)
1998-2001 Nissan Presage U30 (Japan)
1999-2001 Nissan Bassara U30 (Japan)
1993-1997 Nissan Bluebird U13

David BJun 7, 2009, 5:55 am · #3

again
wiki it bro

CamInHeadJun 7, 2009, 6:07 am · #4

Frontier badged as Navara in the UK. Bet it's rare though as they're almost always diesel.

alfa_1366Jun 7, 2009, 12:07 pm · #5

Also consider that people in the US are swapping KA24s out to put in CA18DEs and SR20DEs, why? because the KAs aren't really "performance" engines, as a friend says "Why would you want a truck engine in you're sports car??"

Definitely a good engine but the CAs and SRs have way much better power-to-weight ratio, and way more potential.

jeffwins24Jun 7, 2009, 12:22 pm · #6

alfa_1366Also consider that people in the US are swapping KA24s out to put in CA18DEs and SR20DEs, why? because the KAs aren't really "performance" engines, as a friend says "Why would you want a truck engine in you're sports car??"

Definitely a good engine but the CAs and SRs have way much better power-to-weight ratio, and way more potential.

doesn't matter.

as i would say

no replacement for displacement.

the more air you can stuff in the engine the better off it is for power gains. why does it take so much money to build a 1.6 liter as opposed to a 5.0 and get the 1.6 to the same power level as the 5.0?

IF you wanna get realistic the SR and CA are also truck engines. the SR was found in a 4x4 in japan making 270ps and the CA in a exa so their all truck engines.

after these pics do you still think it's a truck motor?

and if i may ask how exactly are the SR and CA engines better then a KA?

what about that 1000hp ka? it wasn't swapped out

posted image

I've even heard that you can build a 2.8 liter ka with a stroker and boring it.

ron86_z31tJun 7, 2009, 1:46 pm · #7

i totally agree w/ jeffwins24. they were all truck motors at one time. i mean, how many trucks did the chevy 350 come in? and now it the main power plant for one of the worlds fastest accelerating cars (Ultima GTR) so that truck motor/no performance talk is all BS.

seishukuJun 7, 2009, 1:50 pm · #8

Um, wasn't the KA24 used in the 240sx BEFORE it was put in a truck?

jeffwins24Jun 7, 2009, 2:02 pm · #9

ron86_z31ti totally agree w/ jeffwins24. they were all truck motors at one time. i mean, how many trucks did the chevy 350 come in? and now it the main power plant for one of the worlds fastest accelerating cars (Ultima GTR) so that truck motor/no performance talk is all BS.

don't forget the VH or VK those are also truck motors i guess they don't have any performance

lol

seishukuJun 7, 2009, 2:10 pm · #10

And those were also in cars before trucks... That doesn't make them a truck engine.

The exception is the VK56, which was only in trucks, but the others were all in cars well before Nissan started using them in trucks.

jeffwins24Jun 7, 2009, 2:19 pm · #11

seishukuAnd those were also in cars before trucks... That doesn't make them a truck engine.

The exception is the VK56, which was only in trucks, but the others were all in cars well before Nissan started using them in trucks.

but this is the thing. people call the KA a crappy motor and call it "a truck engine" like if it was a bad thing, think about how much trucks have to haul on a daily basis? the engine, tranny, chassis, driver, + loads of what ever is put into the back, also weighing like a van sometimes.

in my opinion a engine is a engine you can't change what engine it is (KA, CA, L, FJ, SR) they are all engines how they react to performance is the way nissan built them, call a engine a truck motor just because it was put into a few trucks and saying it was a bad motor is completely ignorant, hell i use to even say that "it's just a truck engine".

your right though, it was put into cars first later on down the road they put them in trucks. my point being if your gonna call one engine a truck engine when comparing engine do research because the others could just as well be truck engines know what i mean?

seishukuJun 7, 2009, 2:25 pm · #12

Of course.

Just tryin to keep the misinformation down, I don't like it when they're call truck engines either. The KA does have it's issues (pistons/rods), but what engine doesn't!

sideways_s12Jun 7, 2009, 3:06 pm · #13

CamInHeadWe never got the 2.4 in the UK. The performance N/A were either CA18s or SR20s.
I'm curious how the KA compaires to the SRs and CAs. I presume it's a little less stressed as IIRC it has similar output to the other non-turbos ?

IMO Ka is better iron block better displacement and good amout of torque stock also you can boost the stock block and be good to about 400hp before you need stronger rods also the ka is becoming more popular and alot of 240 guys are keeping them and just boosting them instead of swapping it's cheaper to do than swap to sr or ca. Another thing is you can buy a good running ka for like 3-400 bucks if you know where to look...

ron86_z31tJun 7, 2009, 4:07 pm · #14

idk. i also think id rather replace the internals with forged ones(ka) as opposed to replacing the valvetrain(sr) but like seishuku said, all engines have their flaws...

RedneckJun 7, 2009, 4:46 pm · #15

There really isn't that much difference hp wise between the sr20de, ca18de or ka24de. Either way the UK, if I recall correctly, got the ca18det and sr20det. So realistically you got the better motors anyway. The ka24de is a good platform to turbo but the nice thing about the ca18det and sr20det is that they are already turboed from the factory. If you were to ask most USDM s13/s14 owners if they would rather have the ka24de or sr20det I think the answer would be pretty obvious.

ArroJun 7, 2009, 5:27 pm · #16

The nice thing about the KA24DE is IT'S HERE in the States, so availability of parts is abundant. And nowadays there's some aftermarket for them, in both turbo, super, and NA setups. Of course this is about the UK, so you never had that motor. But the question was if it was as solid an engine....

The KA24DE is beefier internally. The KA24DE uses some of the same electronic systems and fuel control as the SR20DE(T). The KA head is designed more for torque, even the DE version. The SR is more designed around horsepower and higher revs. In NA form, there's more tuneability in the SR20DE. In turbocharged form, both produce great results of similar quality.

The idea that Americans are ditching the KA24DE's out for SR's is true, but the reason stated above is not true. They do it mostly because the SR is a hyped engine, and because they can feel like they have an actual "Silvia" spec car, instead of a US market "240SX". Alot of motor swapping in the American S13/S14 market is due to image influence. The SR20DET and the RB series are big hype engines. Sure, they earn it, but there's no reason why you can't take the original 2.4L DOHC KA and tune that just as successfully. In fact, this has become more known in the US, and so more and more people are hanging onto their KA's. You used to be able to pick up a KA24DE engine, trans, and ECU w/ harness for only a few hundred dollars. In fact, I did. However now, they're selling for more like 400-800 depending on the region and the condition. More guys know you can tune and even boost the KA with moderate to amazing success.

Honestly, of you REALLY want to know the KA and what it's capable of, just go to http://www.ka-t.org and check it out for yourself. Home of the KA superengines.

Now regarding the CA18's, those engines are OLD, and *weird*, as any CA18DE or CA18DET owner will attest to. Fun engines, stout and flow nice, but IMO a more modern engine like an SR20DE or SR20DET, or a KA24DE, is a better choice. The engine control systems are more sophisticated, and the engines themselves are newer.

jeffwins24Jun 7, 2009, 7:40 pm · #17

Arro
Now regarding the CA18's, those engines are OLD, and *weird*, as any CA18DE or CA18DET owner will attest to. Fun engines, stout and flow nice, but IMO a more modern engine like an SR20DE or SR20DET, or a KA24DE, is a better choice. The engine control systems are more sophisticated, and the engines themselves are newer.

not to mention tuning is becoming harder to find for them. JWT doesn't even sell anything for them (i just checked too)

RedneckJun 7, 2009, 8:21 pm · #18

I don't get how the ca18det is weird or strange and the sr20det or ka24de isn't. They all overall share a lot of similarities. The sohc ca with 2 spark plugs per cylinder....that is weird.

And Jeff what are you talking about? Tuning a ca18det is not any harder than the sr20 or ka24. There are plenty of piggyback options available to tune with for reasonable prices. Why would you want to get ripped off by JWT?

seishukuJun 7, 2009, 8:38 pm · #19

The CA18D can be ROM tuned just as easy as any other ECU, the bad part is the lack of CONSULT support (which KA, SR, and on support).

ArroJun 7, 2009, 9:03 pm · #20

seishukuThe CA18D can be ROM tuned just as easy as any other ECU, the bad part is the lack of CONSULT support (which KA, SR, and on support).

For those who don't know what it is:

http://pipingpro.com/shop/blog.php/wire-ni...-240sx-sr20det/

Also, the CA18DE/DET ignition design is very nonstandard, and makes adaption to an S12/240SX tach a bit difficult. There are workarounds for it, but still it's extra stuff to take into account.

It can be tuned tho, sure. But the SR and KADE are more modern engines, with better tuning support within and without the ECU's. They also have much simpler ignitions.

David BJun 8, 2009, 12:36 am · #21

god dammit, these threads piss me off, same pictures from jeffwins googling shit, arros same basis on ka's becoming more expensive.. same stuff. over again..

repeat after repeat

why cant it just be opinion? the MONEY, MONEY ACTUALLY SPENT, is really how good of a mechanic, or lucky on parts, deals etc.

you ask that question... WHY, you say, "which is better ka sr or ca" etc...
but at the same time, we are not YOU, all those engines have ups, and downs

no matter what, whatever is gained, is also taken away in a different area

so to sum this up, instead of asking, WHICH, is better, why dont you explain,
WHO you are, HOW much money you have, WHERE you live, WHAT type of deals do you have in your area... etc etc.

because, we all just argue, and say, no this is better, no wait, this has good head flow, this is to hypey, yadda yadda

JayJun 8, 2009, 1:29 am · #22

David Bgod dammit, these threads piss me off, same pictures from jeffwins googling shit, arros same basis on ka's becoming more expensive.. same stuff. over again..

repeat after repeat
why cant it just be opinion? the MONEY, MONEY ACTUALLY SPENT, is really how good of a mechanic, or lucky on parts, deals etc.
you ask that question... WHY, you say, "which is better ka sr or ca" etc...
but at the same time, we are not YOU, all those engines have ups, and downs
no matter what, whatever is gained, is also taken away in a different area
so to sum this up, instead of asking, WHICH, is better, why dont you explain,
WHO you are, HOW much money you have, WHERE you live, WHAT type of deals do you have in your area... etc etc.

because, we all just argue, and say, no this is better, no wait, this has good head flow, this is to hypey, yadda yadda

Although I agree with your statement david. You COULD have been a tad more tactful with it.

Long story short, IMO: If the KA never came there, It's outta the question. and go from there.

A turbo Diesel S12 would be pretty sweet in my book.

David BJun 8, 2009, 1:34 am · #23

yea, the thread was started with, that the guy doesnt understand because he is from a different area, i understand, i just made that post, from the receding comments

XanoJun 8, 2009, 3:20 am · #24

I preffer torque over HP personally, so If I had a 4cyl car, I'd have a KA24DE in it. Its a stout engine, stock form handles boost decently.

If I lived in the UK, I'd try to get a KA imported to swap into my S12.

Or do a turbo diesel S12 and run it on homemade bio.

jeffwins24Jun 8, 2009, 6:09 am · #25

David Bgod dammit, these threads piss me off, same pictures from jeffwins googling shit, arros same basis on ka's becoming more expensive.. same stuff. over again..

repeat after repeat
why cant it just be opinion? the MONEY, MONEY ACTUALLY SPENT, is really how good of a mechanic, or lucky on parts, deals etc.
you ask that question... WHY, you say, "which is better ka sr or ca" etc...
but at the same time, we are not YOU, all those engines have ups, and downs
no matter what, whatever is gained, is also taken away in a different area
so to sum this up, instead of asking, WHICH, is better, why dont you explain,
WHO you are, HOW much money you have, WHERE you live, WHAT type of deals do you have in your area... etc etc.

because, we all just argue, and say, no this is better, no wait, this has good head flow, this is to hypey, yadda yadda

me googling shit DAMN FUCKING STRAIGHT! thats how i even found out the SR came in a 4X4 truck. if you don't know something google it, it's probably already been asked for the billinth time, why make a thread and waste space on something that can be so easily found. like this topic, but actually taking time to search and stop being a lazy ass. (the Z bum way lol)

bro... are you a stalker or something? JK

look it's like FJ VS CA, SR, KA, RB convo

the FJ was never made in america yet most S12'ers still desire the FJ and would snatch it up if they had the time, money and resources to rebuild (VG_30 cough), and get it on the road. i sure as hell I would if I had the money and time, that motor is just simply AMAZING for a 2 liter 4 cylinder. (flows more air in and out then even most engines today and wait, it's 20 years old O_o )

I think the OP just wanted a opinion on how good the KA was and if it was actually worth importing and building, would be for a pretty unique build though (since KA's are limited over there)

EightySix200SXJun 8, 2009, 9:43 am · #26

ArroThe nice thing about the KA24DE is IT'S HERE in the States, so availability of parts is abundant. And nowadays there's some aftermarket for them, in both turbo, super, and NA setups.

plus one and i work here so ka shit is always in stock. i mean i stock ca shit too but not much. why do u think im selling my ca.......

sr n ca parts are the kinda parts u gotta wait for or are very stupidly expensive

ArroJun 8, 2009, 11:45 am · #27

David Byea, the thread was started with, that the guy doesnt understand because he is from a different area, i understand, i just made that post, from the receding comments

How about something you tend to suggest to jeff all the time:

Read before rant.

Anyways yes, the point was that someone in the UK asked about them, just for their own knowledge. Since they probably don't have them there, it's just a *discussion*. And facts and figured were indeed stated, including costs.

And yes, I personally DID indeed mention that price was dependent on both condition AND location. Some backwater hickville area will probably have them far cheaper than the heart of southern California.

Anyways these discussions will happen a number of times EVERY YEAR... these SR vs. KA vs. CA vs. VG vs. flux capacitor vs. etc etc. Only a relative n00b to the forum (in comparison to how long it's been around) would act like this was a new issue

(in other words, if you've only been here a year or so, and you're bitching about this kinda thread, STFU )

XanoJun 8, 2009, 1:51 pm · #28

I couldve swore I posted a response before. meh, Maybe i never hit submit, I was awfully tired at work last night.

Basically David, dont yell at Jeff for searching google. the fact that he did his research and then posted, is something to look UP to, not down on.

David BJun 8, 2009, 1:57 pm · #29

XanoI couldve swore I posted a response before. meh, Maybe i never hit submit, I was awfully tired at work last night.

Basically David, dont yell at Jeff for searching google. the fact that he did his research and then posted, is something to look UP to, not down on.

i didnt look down on it... im just sick of those pics ive seen them like 5 times hes posted

CamInHeadJun 8, 2009, 3:47 pm · #30

wow, maybe I should ask about the FJ too, just to really piss 'im off.
Anyway, numbers don't really tell much. Arro's post about the SR20 historically endowing S-bodies with more Jap-cool is interesting.
Other than novelty/JDM-yo/nostalgia I doubt the FJ really scores over the SR in real terms.

jeffwins24Jun 8, 2009, 4:48 pm · #31

CamInHeadwow, maybe I should ask about the FJ too, just to really piss 'im off.
Anyway, numbers don't really tell much. Arro's post about the SR20 historically endowing S-bodies with more Jap-cool is interesting.
Other than novelty/JDM-yo/nostalgia I doubt the FJ really scores over the SR in real terms.

you sure you wanna try to challenge a engine that was built purely for hard core racing? well at least thats the rumor, it was supposedly gonna be used in F1 back in the days, right as nissan was finishing R&D with the FJ15ET F1 put a ban on turbos, nissan was left with alot of a built engine they couldn't even use in a street car, they bumped it to a 2.0 and 2.4 liter kept the same head design (why redesign it? would cost more $$ that way) kept it with VERY strong internals, and threw it in the R30 RS, silvia RS-X and the 240RS (FJ24S rally inspired)

it's said to hold 35psi on stock internals (the VG can't even do that without blowing a headgasket at the minimum)

read the history http://fj20.com/

early model FJ24's were making 244hp at the crank.

late models were making 277HP AT THE CRANK WITH A CARB ITB SETUP tell me what modern engine makes that kind of power without a turbocharger? and it's a carb nonetheless so theres PLENTY of room for improvement.

... i want a FJ

just thought i should point it out

FJ20 is a performance benchmark in Japanese automotive history and one of Japan's greatest high performace production engines.

seishukuJun 8, 2009, 5:08 pm · #32

277BHP on what fuel though?
Here's a hint: It ain't 93 octane.

GusJun 8, 2009, 5:26 pm · #33

seishukuUm, wasn't the KA24 used in the 240sx BEFORE it was put in a truck?

no.. 1988 = hardbody = ka24e

1989 = 240sx

jeffwins24Jun 8, 2009, 5:32 pm · #34

i think the 88 had a VG30I or a Z24I didn't it? i may be mistaken for the pathfinder though

GusJun 8, 2009, 5:37 pm · #35

jeffwins24i think the 88 had a VG30I or a Z24I didn't it? i may be mistaken for the pathfinder though

yea you're right.. it had the z24.. I thought 87 was the last year on those..

seishukuJun 8, 2009, 5:39 pm · #36

Also technically it was in 88 that the 240sx had a KA, but it's for the 89 model year.

Also Jeff, the F1 thing FJ20.com says is a "common rumor", they aren't stating that as fact.
As far as I'm concerned, the FJ was only built for GT and Group A rally.

ArroJun 8, 2009, 7:40 pm · #37

Ok with everything said, I think I want to re-write my original thoughts a bit. I'm going to start a new thread with it tho.

CamInHeadJun 9, 2009, 2:19 pm · #38

oh I'm sure the FJ is awesome but as a day to day option I'd go SR.

sideways_s12Jun 9, 2009, 3:03 pm · #39

yeah the fj is an awesome motor but it's been said that parts are hard to find and very expensive