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Hi everyone... Right now my engines out to replace the front oil seal. So i've been thinking i might as well do a manual swap while its out. Could anyone tell me what tranys will bolt up to the ca20e and where would be a good place to buy them? I live in Ocean City maryland so there's not many s12's around here... Thanks for the help
GarageBurdenedS12Hi everyone... Right now my engines out to replace the front oil seal. So i've been thinking i might as well do a manual swap while its out. Could anyone tell me what tranys will bolt up to the ca20e and where would be a good place to buy them? I live in Ocean City maryland so there's not many s12's around here... Thanks for the help
Wrong section
This thread--->Drivetrain Tech
Judging from your questions I'd say you need to do a bunch of research and take notes before moving further. Read my swap thread that was linked (thanks phisher!) and search the forum for info on the transmissions. IIRC theres a thread stickied in the drivetrain section that covers the two trannies and whats up with them but still search.
IDK how the junkyard scene is up in maryland but thats where you'll need to go. Read my thread.
GL
You'll need the driveshaft for the manual trans, grab that, keep it together (its a two piece affair).
Definitely read up on Waylon's conversion thread!
I'll move this thread to drivetrain forum, feel free to carry on there...
Wow sorry about putting this in the wrong section... For some reason i've never seen the drivetrain section probly explains why i couldnt find the answer... Well thanks for pointing me in the right direction... I'll go ahead and do somemore research and if i have any more questions i'll comeback to this...
Well here's my $0.02...
If you're going to go with the trouble of switching to a manual trans, get either the S12 C trans (which is unlikely since you said there's so few S12's in your area) or an S13/S14 trans. The nice thing about the S13/S14 trans is it's SOLID. You will also get a closer shift reach, which I find more comfortable.
IggyEGuana's thread IS exactly what you will need to do, except I think you can use the front half of an S13 manual trans shaft with the rear half of an S12 one, instead of going for the more expensive single piece custom shaft.
i have sloppy ujs on the mk2 1988 s12, i was wondering if i could replace it with a 1-piece type?????
its possible. take some measurements and call around 4x4 truck shops.
Yeah a couple people have done it before on here. USE STEEL, not aluminum!
brilliant! i have a chap locally that can make & balance one for around £100
my uj's are sloppy & a bit clunky, it'll take some slack out of the system wont it,
any paticular benefits or negatives to doing this mpdification???
s12midlandsukany paticular benefits or negatives to doing this mpdification???
1 piece shaft is lighter.
Some guys have had problems with their seals on the trans. I highly suggest installing a new rear seal in the trans at time of new driveshaft installation.
So the other night i get my nisy to the shop, stop and shut her off cuz my keys are on the same ring... unlock shop, turn off alarm, open gate, fire car back up, go to put in gear... grind.. grind... *pump pedal a couple times* grind, and in... and starts rolling slightly before i even start to get off the clutch.... "Hmmmm..."
Go around back, hit clutch, and pop outta gear, in2 reverse, back up, get turned around and lined up with bay door, grind into first, and up n in onto hoist, rather quickly... not much clutch action onthe dissengagment part of things.. pop outta gear and shut her down...
rip thigns apart etc etc, took a quick glance at clutch, didnt notice anything odd, but no time to tinker...
This mornin, fire up car and go to move outta shop to free up bay.... no clutch.. nothing at the peddel.
Before i got there, it worked fine... i spent a good bit of time going back n forth to get her outta her parking spot in the snowy driveway, and then drove across town... it was cold, she was cold, but i had the engine n inside pretty toasty warm/warmed up to OP temp.. the clutch pedal was realy stiff/froze when i first started it (Along with everything else)
Im just wondering if its possible the cold froze up the seals or something and they blew out? could that do it? (And yes, the resivoir is still nice and full) there is pretty much no fewl to the pedal.. so i was thinking slave (Or the 2nd cylinder) cuz i was thinking i would feel a little bit of something from the first one...
and the clutch is engaged, so its not like its stuck dissengaged/broken, and the pedal just kinda weakend... (By strong i mean i put the car in reverse and started it, and it started movin a tteh first crank, in high idle, and i hit the brakes some o try and slow it down (Didnt wanna jump the car in reverse off the hoist!!!) but it slowed the engine and almost stalled... deffinately NO SLIPPAGE of the clutch...
so my theory is its the master, and maybe the slave cylinders gone ka-put...
also i was wondering if theres a sort of optimal replacement? maybe using one of the cylinders from that CNC site with the handbrakes and other brake master cylinders and stuff. or something similar... a complete kit. i supose i'll end up phoning or going to bumper2bumper or napa 2morro..
yeah it sounds like you blew the seals in the clutch master cylinder, no seals, no pressure. i worked on a four runner the other day at work with the same exact problem. put a new master cylinder in and it fixed it.
As for replacment.. i bought a new clutch master cylinder for my project car for like 12 dollars online somewhere.. and the slave clyinder is like 20 bucks too. anything OEM will do the job.
you could get a brand new oem one for like 20 bucks, and they are all pretty much the same, mine is from my 94 nissan truck, fit perfectly in my 88 se
sweet.. cept im in canada.. anything u guys get for like 10-20 bucks is usualy closer to 50 in our stores and shops up here.. lol
but still cheap.. i was speculating around 100-120 mark.. fearing the 2-300 mark...
and theres often lots of nissans commin into the shop.. pathfinders and such... hehehe...
Im gonna ditch that dampener dealy as well i thinks...
Thanks guys!
Clutch slave or master, a fairly common problem. Check both for leaks. Its generally recommended that you replace both at the same time, they tend to go in pairs, neither are usually very expensive.
Also make sure you flush out the line real good, rubber bits and moisture likes to hang out there and foul out new cylinders. Ask me how I know.
well, i noticed the piston dealy looked an awefull lot like a drum brake piston... lol.. i pushed it in a lil, and it felt kinda odd... not as i figured it should feal, almost floppy kinda...
as for flushing out the lines, i think for the price of em, i might just replace them to while im at it, and for the actualy flushing, id just gravity bleed em first, and then use the pressure bleeder.. shouldn't be any different than doin brakes...
actualy.. now that i think about the last time i used that thing, i'll do it the normal way... besides, its only one, not four... even doin brakes is quicker by hand/pumping... unless u wanna flush the whole system...
I work half a day tommorrow, then im off to "Back home" for a day or two, maybe i'll run it in and check it out when i get back.. been too busy to do anything since sunday night.
I havent come across anything on this site in particular abot alligining driveshafts, but i know on some vehicles with 2 piece u have to shim the center support bearing to eliminate vibrations. (Merkur -What a nightmare for the inexperienced, especialy with a big rubber donut in the spot where a U-joint should theoreticaly go)
I know on some vehicles it will cause a minor vibration in the driveline.
I think the biggest reason most vehicles have a split shaft is to add angles, to keep the U-Joints from seizing up. Also, i think most 1 pieces are thicker than a split of the same length for the sake of eliminating some of the flex/wobble in a driveshaft.
Personaly, i cant see it being a problem and know of plenty of cases on different cars where a 1 piece is swapped out, usualy on a tranny conversion or swap as the shafts need machined anyhow.
ArroYeah a couple people have done it before on here. USE STEEL, not aluminum!
why would you go for steel over aluminum? just cheaper? aluminums probly a lot lighter right?
steel is easier to balance, so if you are cheap, go with steel.
if you try to get a cheap al, you run risk of annoying vibration.
Actually the two driveshaft shops I spoke with both said that aluminum shafts on a daily driver can sometimes experience twisting over time, because they aren't able to take the manual trans engagement when you beat on them between gears. The other thing about aluminum shafts is they can cost $100-150 bux more than steel. And the weight differences between them aren't a whole lot, certainly not enough to justify it for most people IMO. Anyways, if any of you have doubts about which to go with, ASK DRIVESHAFT SHOPS, don't trust anyone one of us. They see a lot more shaft failures than we do. Ask around, ask a few shops. Then make your decision informed.
Lynium, a single piece shaft won't have that much vibration IMO, and certainly I wouldn't want one without a u-joint on either end... lifted pickup trucks don't bind their u-joints, so I doubt an S12 will.
thats bullshit.
i feel like we've had this discussion before.
anyway, most "local" shaft shops dont deal with aluminum, and will try to sway you away from it.
you'd be amazed how many vehicles come with aluminum shafts from the factory.
chevy fullsize trucks with big v8's and 4wd for instance.
lifted pickup trucks do bind thier u-joints, have bad vibration from u-joints, and break them often.
unless the owner setup the pinion angles properly. rotate the rear end, drop the transfer case etc.
there are a lot of little tricks for setting up a drive shaft properly. you want the same angle on the ujoint at both ends.
Arro
Lynium, a single piece shaft won't have that much vibration IMO, and certainly I wouldn't want one without a u-joint on either end... lifted pickup trucks don't bind their u-joints, so I doubt an S12 will.
No brewster we never had this discussion before.... but again the two shops I spoke with make both kinds, and they each in their own wording said what I've relayed here. I know some cars come with them, but it could be that the engineering behind an OEM setup is different than what is turned out at a specialty shop. Who knows. But the weight difference isn't huge, and the price difference is, and that was the biggest point for me.
Lyniumi think u misunderstood what i ment... not that they bind, but that if theres not ENOUGH angle to them, the u-joints dont move enough to keep the greese worked around enough and it dries out/siezes.. a lack of angle is worse thatn too much IMO.. jacked up trucks tend to have more angle... from what i understand is the sometimes a two piec is used to gain more angle, so the u-joints last longer. i think the other reason may be for like extended cab long boxes, where the chassie/frame teds to flex a bit, allowing for safe/more movement. An s12 i think wouldnt have much problem using a 1 piece.
as for the rubber thingy, (Guibo/ roto-flex disk etc etc) its not realy a u-joint, but could be replaced with one.. they're found on some BMW, fords, and volvos. (And they suck!!!)
brewster240arro:
the weight difference might not be huge, but you have to take into consideration that is a rotating part, and its weight is multiplied, such as a flywheel, pullies etc.
its a narrow part, so most of its mass in centralized, but its still a rotating part.
brewster240the longer a shaft is, the more likely it is to wobble/vibrate.
Just smash your piggy bank and go with a carbon fiber shaft.
s12godJust smash your piggy bank and go with a carbon fiber shaft.
ArroThat's what she said
I was thinkin about the carbon fibre.. i thought about getting carbon fibre axles for the talon when i had it, but yeah, the prices... lol
personaly, i'd just stick with steel.
i know this is fairly off topic,but what piece of the 2 piece driveshaft goes in front?
nismologisti know this is fairly off topic,but what piece of the 2 piece driveshaft goes in front?
short or long?
The shorter piece
ok i need one from an s13 real bad for my trans swap.
the part that fits in the transmission goes in front.
it has a big bearing on it.
i have an aluminum driveshaft in my 3300 pound drift car taht i beat the shit out of, and its super long to. 48inches from joint to joint. i have had no problems with it, and it only cost 350 shipped to me, built to my specs.
werd up say werd.
brewster240the part that fits in the transmission goes in front.
it has a big bearing on it.
i have an aluminum driveshaft in my 3300 pound drift car taht i beat the shit out of, and its super long to. 48inches from joint to joint. i have had no problems with it, and it only cost 350 shipped to me, built to my specs.
werd up say werd.
brewster240the part that fits in the transmission goes in front.After some research..
it has a big bearing on it.
i have an aluminum driveshaft in my 3300 pound drift car taht i beat the shit out of, and its super long to. 48inches from joint to joint. i have had no problems with it, and it only cost 350 shipped to me, built to my specs.
werd up say werd.
shaftmasters.com
So today i finished up all my crap a bit early and decided to run the nissy in and check her underbelly on the clutch situation... hooked the booster pack up to her, (no alt or batt at the time) and she fired right up... (-25 to -35 celcius with wind) and hought eh, i'll give her a chance... wouldnt ya know it, the lutch was working again, made it al lthe way around the shop and in the bay etc, no incidences... at any rate, i got to tinkering, re-located the bat and did some wiring etc, and oh yeah, the clutch! duh!
i checked the res, and it was near dry.. i filled it up, and tried giving her a few pumps.. still feels like nobody home, but it was working.. lol
at any rate, u could tell it emptied rather quick cuz of the ring up near the top, versus the clean sides, and then dirty gross greyish blackish fluid from the bottom...
anyways, gettin it ordered tommorrow along with a chev/gm alternator. I woulda had it ordered already, but wanted to order everything at once, and need to find that thread abou tthe using a diff cars brake line to bypass the clutch damper thingy...