S12 Pinto Feasability...

aight, i already know im gonna get slammed on this one... but.. here it goes...
first off, i dont wanna care to hear "Dont do it" or "bad idea" or "Pffft those engines are.. etc etc..." unless you have sound reason to back it, other than personal opinion.
the motor is a good one, a great one, with plenty of jam to her, and tonnes of potential, and bullet proof, and simple.
*Deep breath*

My nissy spent the winter parked, just do to gremlins and lack of any time money, and loss of heart.

during that time, i bought a Merkur XR4Ti... quite an odd cute lil car.. to sum it up, its a german built ford. I can see it was quite an ingniuos machine back in its day, but it had a small ding where the door met fender cuz sum one backed the door into something while it was open.

Then a stroke of unbelivable luck, i bought another XR4Ti... this one was an standard = +40ish HP for a total of around 175. Paid 140$ for it, and intended to use it for parts. next i knew, i fixe dit all up n drove it a bit. and man does it have some pretty nice jam to her after runnin around in the nissy, and then switchin to the daytona for winter.

but the car is a worse nightmare than the nissy i had started drivin a few months earlier again.

XR4Ti = (86 200sx + gremlins + drivetrain issues + rarity of parts X 350%)

i demoted the red standard to "Parts car" for the black auto and know that theres very little wrong with the engine n tranny needs a bit more minor work.

also, for around 4-500$ plus the cost of diggin up an intercooler, i can have it sittin around the 300hp mark, reliably. and if i wanted to spend crazy money at it, ive seen em sittin at 4-5-6-700 and even a couple pushing 1000 and better (but thats just stupid and expensive.. i dont know if i even want 300... yet... lol)

anyways, i moved about a month ago, and am still waiting for telus to send me a modem (They're on attempt number four, should be in next wednesday) but i been itching to get online and check into things in depth. (Im at the inlaws pullin an all nighter to satisfy my thirst for knowledge!)

at anyrate, i was kinda daunted as a search has only pulled up about 6 threads and only 2 of em where actualy engine swap related, and those where 5.0 muckstang engines.

at any rate, i havent had a chance to get measurements, i was gonna when i had the nissy on the hoist at teh shop today n forgot, again, but eyeing em up parked nose to nose, it looks like a pretty dange straight forward swap! the only real worries i have would be in regards to engine n tranny mounts and where my shifter pokes through the floor, then getting a driveshaft machined up. and maybe rear end failure etc, but i'll deal with that when the time comes... lol

the engine is simple enough.. far simpler than the nissy engine. as for all the accessories, most of em dont work or turned off anyhow, but i think one of these days i should rip the car apart n start chasin down n fixing electrical gremlins anyhow, as i would like it all to work a bit better, have interior lights that shut off etc...

anyways, id pretty much re-wire the car anyways, but i dont know what it takes to hook  up the speedo and Tach.. the rest of the dash gauges, (aside from fuel level) are minor.. i have aftermarket gauges taht dont randomly drop off n such like the digi cluster.. lol i have a nice lil 7inch lcd that would fit nice where my dash is... hehe

the other thing is hooking up the ignition switch, but i found and saved a page on here about rewiring that, and i've played with the 2.3 enough to know whats what on it.. i could prolly even hook in the warning lights on the dash with very little problem other than patience with a hack job mix n match of the harnesses..

so, anyone know of anyone thats tried this or anything similar? (Not a 5.0 tho)

standin there they look to be about same dimensions n such, and heck, the mounts look like they're almost the same spot with just a slightly different angle to em.

i doubt theres much of a wieght difference i weighed my nissy the other day when drivin past a scale, 1130kg i thik it was, or 1160.. and then i dumped prolly 100pnds by ditching the spare tire, jack n today proly lost another 20 after scraping off the build up of oily mud cake coating everything under neath!!

the trany tunnel on the nissy im certain is prolly bigger, and its only a T9 tranny, so smaller than a t5, which I may convert to one day in the future depending on how the T9 handles power...

so anyways, they runn down on the engine is Ford 2.3L Turbo used in the mustang SVO, and certain years of the thunderbird, basicaly the same as a ford ranger 2.3L of certain years, and prolly other vehicles as well, puts out 175HP stock fuel injected. (The turbo one like im usin, not the ranger version) its the same block from the Lima plant, used in Pintos, rangers etc etc A.K.A the pinto engine... (Its pretty funny to blow the doors off some one n then tell em its just a pinto engine.. hehe)

later plans for it would likely be ditching the ecu and runnin stand alone, maybe an old BAMAFUEL if i can get my hands on one, but they're pretty rare as the guy that made em, made and sent out a few, then took the money and ran...

I want to do a front n rear suspension/hub conversion for rear disk brakes and five lug pattern, and hopefully to some easier to aquire/more common parts in the event of needing em.

also, the exhaust and intake are on reversed sides, which calms some of my worries about clearance with steering and brake booster..

I am sure it is quite do-able, i was just hoping to get pointed in the right direction, and any comments, ideas, warnings, knowledge of any kits and adapters etc, would be great!

thanks,

~L~

P.S.

I tried to cover most everything i could think of, as i dont know when i'll get back here, or more to the point, when my modem will dang well show up!!!! Hope to find some hopefull words writen on here when i get back!!

Check on nicoclub for an S13 with that motor swap. I remember some guy bought a rusted to hell S13, learned to weld on it, then planned to drop in that 2.3 ford motor. I don't remember the name or the thread title, but good luck searching for it. Whatever engine problems he encountered fitting it would apply to the S12s, since the motor fitments are fairly similar, minus the tranny tunnel. Think of it this way, KA swapped S12s fit perfect, or even better, than it did in an S13.  The only thing KA guys do is slot the tranny tunnel for the shifter.

Anything is possible man.  Have fun and good luck.

Oh and PIIIIIICCCCSSSSS!!!lol

IggyEGuanaAnything is possible man.  Have fun and good luck.

Oh and PIIIIIICCCCSSSSS!!!lol

I don't get it. You put "feasibility" in the title, but then you tell us not to tell you to not do it. So basically you already are assuming it's feasible.

I already commented on what I think about this swap. The bottom line was  "if you have the money, but I think it's not that good of an idea, but have fun regardless".

Anyways pretty much bleuoval said the right stuffd abotu the world class trans.

ArroI don't get it. You put "feasibility" in the title, but then you tell us not to tell you to not do it. So basically you already are assuming it's feasible.

I already commented on what I think about this swap. The bottom line was  "if you have the money, but I think it's not that good of an idea, but have fun regardless".

Anyways pretty much bleuoval said the right stuffd abotu the world class trans.

The pinto 2.3 is very popular is the UK from what I've heard from immigrants here.  They put them in any RWD coupes they can get their hands on.

I personally don't understand it, cuz when I think pinto, I think:

mod_mastazCheck on nicoclub for an S13 with that motor swap. I remember some guy bought a rusted to hell S13, learned to weld on it, then planned to drop in that 2.3 ford motor. I don't remember the name or the thread title, but good luck searching for it. Whatever engine problems he encountered fitting it would apply to the S12s, since the motor fitments are fairly similar, minus the tranny tunnel. Think of it this way, KA swapped S12s fit perfect, or even better, than it did in an S13.  The only thing KA guys do is slot the tranny tunnel for the shifter.

IggyEGuanaAnything is possible man.  Have fun and good luck.

Oh and PIIIIIICCCCSSSSS!!!lol

bleuoval64I agree, you should document as much as you can.  Who knows, you might inspire someone else to do it as well.

As for the swap, you should search, unless you already have, for info on Mustang SVO.  Not to be confused with Ford SVT.  The Mustang SVO had that very 2.3l fourbanger in it.  Well, it was turbo charged, but it was still the same motor.  2.3 turbos can turn some serious numbers at the drag strip.  I've seen them!  Stock, I believe they put out a whopping 88hp!!

For transmissions, If you decide to go with a t-5, I would highly recommend a world-class t-5, they are stronger than the regular(non-world-class) t-5s.  You can get the wc t-5 out of a 5L mustang or Thunderbird, but you'll need the bellhousing from a 4cyl model.  The 5L were world-class, the 4cyl and some of the 6 cyl are non world-class.

If you want a kick-ass shifter for it, look up the company called Steeda.  I know they make shifters for t-5s, not sure about the t-9.  They have a shifter called a Tri-Ax, and I tell ya, you will NEVER miss 3rd again.

WilkieThe pinto 2.3 is very popular is the UK from what I've heard from immigrants here.  They put them in any RWD coupes they can get their hands on.

I personally don't understand it, cuz when I think pinto, I think:

It's a great idea. I've considered it for quite some time. With the parts support for the 2.3 it's potential is often underestimated.
I'm pretty sure your finding a 4-valve(SVO) motor is unlikely. The 2-valve has great potential though.

If look around on the web, you'll find where acouple of guys were using a Volvo 4-valve on the 2.3 block. You gotta get custom made cams though. Also some cylinders may flow alittle bit better than others cause the bore spacing isn't exactly the same between the volvo and Ford I think. But I think they've got one working.

mod_mastazCheck on nicoclub for an S13 with that motor swap. I remember some guy bought a rusted to hell S13, learned to weld on it, then planned to drop in that 2.3 ford motor. I don't remember the name or the thread title, but good luck searching for it. Whatever engine problems he encountered fitting it would apply to the S12s, since the motor fitments are fairly similar, minus the tranny tunnel. Think of it this way, KA swapped S12s fit perfect, or even better, than it did in an S13.  The only thing KA guys do is slot the tranny tunnel for the shifter.

Honestly, I wouldn't bother with this swap.

I know the engine is everywhere, but bang for buck is gonna be better with a KA

If you're gonna go oddball with the engine, why not go with a 13B or a 4A-GE??

I say do it if that's what you want to do and think it'll work then doesn't matter what everybody else thinks/says just gor it just remember to post a crap load of pics...

JonBIt's a great idea. I've considered it for quite some time. With the parts support for the 2.3 it's potential is often underestimated.
I'm pretty sure your finding a 4-valve(SVO) motor is unlikely. The 2-valve has great potential though.

If look around on the web, you'll find where acouple of guys were using a Volvo 4-valve on the 2.3 block. You gotta get custom made cams though. Also some cylinders may flow alittle bit better than others cause the bore spacing isn't exactly the same between the volvo and Ford I think. But I think they've got one working.

brewster240that car is a horrible example to use.

check out that posters sig pic on nico, my name is in it.

yes, i am the mike miller that pissed in his chereos, and was glad to see that car never finished.

but the 2.3 turbo is a great motor.
the trouble i think you may run into is that it is a tall motor. get out the tapemeasure.

WilkieHonestly, I wouldn't bother with this swap.

I know the engine is everywhere, but bang for buck is gonna be better with a KA

If you're gonna go oddball with the engine, why not go with a 13B or a 4A-GE??

sideways_s12I say do it if that's what you want to do and think it'll work then doesn't matter what everybody else thinks/says just gor it just remember to post a crap load of pics...

Thought it would be cool to drop the 2.3 turbo motor into an awd tempo, sleeper city, who would think a Tempo could be fast.  As for it in the s12, ehh, not to sure about that one.  Especially since Nissan makes some real nice turbo motors that have been done and drop right in.  But if you have most things to get it done, then I say go for it.

i have helped build a 2.3 ford for the dirt track big kid go car things i cant remember the name of them but they are awsome engine and i am not afraid to say that even though i hate fords. but they can make around 250 hp with high compression pistion and still be reliable

kyskateri have helped build a 2.3 ford for the dirt track big kid go car things i cant remember the name of them but they are awsome engine and i am not afraid to say that even though i hate fords. but they can make around 250 hp with high compression pistion and still be reliable

it was na..... it was for circle track lo.... i forgot to mention the super high compression like 14:1 i do beleive

kyskaterit was na..... it was for circle track lo.... i forgot to mention the super high compression like 14:1 i do beleive

i gotn know what the head comes from but i can tell you that they were running a illegal head.... the brevious " deshrouded a hell of alot... they were idiots.... they came in the shop saying this thing aint making no power. as i took the first pistion out the rings were CRUMBELED.... were talking problly 30 pieces each.... lucky it stayed in the ringland, all of the pistions were like this because our guess was the previous shop didnt gap the rings...... but hey i fixed it and it ran like a chanp

OK i have to make a major comment on this so bare with me.  

I own an 89' mustang i converted to 2.3 turbo.  Motor mods are:
Motor is an 87 t-coupe with garret t3(dont know what A/R ratios are, but came off 87' 300zx yes i know its on the turbo), Home ported head, crane stage 2 roller cam with esslinger followers, .1'' larger ss valves with some deshrouding work done to combustion chambers, head milled slightly, ARP head stud kit, ported intake with port matching, volvo intercooler, adjustable fuel press reg, and LA3 computer. I think that covers everything about the motor

The car is dead reliable even at 17psi.  Some say it can go as far as 20psi(with proper turbo size and tune).  A good site for info would be www.stinger-performance.com .  Look at project "bolt-on."  Very interesting.

Let me also comment on the fact of the tranny.  In my s12 is a borg&WaRner tranny from 300zx turbo.  It doesnt fit.  Its diameter is huge compared to stock v6 s12 tranny.  I had to cut the top out of my tranns tunnel.  Prepare for hell.  You also have to make a new crossmember and a new driveshaft.   Let alone it you are using a solid rear axle then your really fucked.  I suggest irs swap.  I believe its already been stickied somewhere on this site.  

Over all i say go for it.  I'd love to see a 2.3 turbo powered s12.  There isnt another one like it probably.  Good luck! If ya ever need any info on 2.3 visit that website or pm me and maybe i can help!

titaniumbmxisn't the 2.3 the engine they build up using the volvo b234 cosworth head?

Richter888OK i have to make a major comment on this so bare with me.  

I own an 89' mustang i converted to 2.3 turbo.  Motor mods are:
Motor is an 87 t-coupe with garret t3(dont know what A/R ratios are, but came off 87' 300zx yes i know its on the turbo), Home ported head, crane stage 2 roller cam with esslinger followers, .1'' larger ss valves with some deshrouding work done to combustion chambers, head milled slightly, ARP head stud kit, ported intake with port matching, volvo intercooler, adjustable fuel press reg, and LA3 computer. I think that covers everything about the motor

The car is dead reliable even at 17psi.  Some say it can go as far as 20psi(with proper turbo size and tune).  A good site for info would be www.stinger-performance.com .  Look at project "bolt-on."  Very interesting.

Let me also comment on the fact of the tranny.  In my s12 is a borg&WaRner tranny from 300zx turbo.  It doesnt fit.  Its diameter is huge compared to stock v6 s12 tranny.  I had to cut the top out of my tranns tunnel.  Prepare for hell.  You also have to make a new crossmember and a new driveshaft.   Let alone it you are using a solid rear axle then your really fucked.  I suggest irs swap.  I believe its already been stickied somewhere on this site.  

Over all i say go for it.  I'd love to see a 2.3 turbo powered s12.  There isnt another one like it probably.  Good luck! If ya ever need any info on 2.3 visit that website or pm me and maybe i can help!

wow.. long time no post..

Dont worry.. everythings figured out now.. just gotta get her done..

Yes, its still a go.

Now, I have all the resources in hand I belive... I may cheat a little though. we'll have to see.

This spring summer I plan to get that poor 2.3 ready.

This season I wont cry if I "Accidently cook" the ca20e while racing as plans are being made for me to join in hte 2010 ASA race season!

(Solo/autocross racing)

Ineed to get that danged merkur outta my garage so I have more room for al these vehicles, as It looks like I have another nissy (A hatchback this time,) and 2 more eagles comming... lol

Also, keeping my eyes open for cars to use for conversions pieces, IE s13/14 etc for the frnt end and such...

Also, now I real know what colours I wanna paint the car.. too bad its like 300$ a quart for the main paint I want!!!

Meh.. winter is over enough, I may be driving my poor nissy within the next week or two!!!

theres a turbo from a merk on ebay.  has a bunch of stuff connected to it.  check it out

had a quick search, but didnt find much.. hehe

did find some interesting things though...

on the bright side, while starring at my engine bay, and more pointedly the existing motor mounts, I think im gonna be juuuuust fne when it comes to the motor mounts.. piece of cake... now I can relax, and ASSUME that I can do everything on my own... the motor mounts are the only thing I was truely worried about... everything else I could work out.. lol...

well that, and the driveshaft.. that I'll have to take over to Gena machining, they do plenty of work for my workplace in that aspect, Im im sure they can adjust my driveshaft length for my needs.

that and I jsut gotta look carefully how the clutch is mounted and connected... the nissy is hydrolic, the Merkur one is just cable operated.

Maybe I'll lok about and see if any other cars with that trany ahve a hydro version by chance...

wel, got tikering yesterd, got the rest of the engine harness and ecu and stuff out of the car.

after a bit of starring at it, looking at the model etc, Im working on figuring out which megasquirt setup I need to order.

I think that'll be the best/simplest and in the end, the smartest and most pleasing route to go.

I think if I could find some one to help me load the car up and take it to the shop, I'd be on it right now.

Im thinkin my roof may be a little low, and not enouh concrete space on my garage floor, to get teh hoist in front of the car, and, its gonna be a pita to get to the driveshaft and tranny mount etc since the car is only about 2 inches off the floor.

who wants to come help drag a car!!!

think im just gonna say screw it, spend the 60 or so bucks, and have a tow truck come take it over there for me, safest easiest thing to do...

no AMA, but it is a thought.. hehe.. the inlaw has it, uses it sometimes..

I have the tahoe here and a toe rope etc at the shop, hehe...

okay, just got ambitious, moved cars around, and cleaned my garage!

re-arranged and organized everything, got the little couch chair thingy in their and usable workbench space, etc.

now I can sit there in comfort and stare at it all.

I even had an empty drive way for about 15 mins!! 1st time in probably 2 years it was vehicle free!! of course, now its got 3 vehicles parked in it again.. lol

but got the nissy parked up close to the garage, so I can put it nose to nose with the xr4ti and compare and take notes.. mostly though, just sit in the middle and stare.

cant wiat till I have my own internet back next week.
can take the laptop out and sit there and stare and compare and.. well yeah...

hehe.. at any rate, just reclaimed my peaceful daydream room away from kids and people.

and maybe I'll get some more progress done.

was just looking.. I have a ratchetting chain hoist dealy, but dont think my rafters are up to the wieght of an engine n tranny.. lol

ur gonna need a custom sticker that says 230SX Turbo

YEEEAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

no pictures no care

brewster240no pictures no care

that engine is one of the easiest engines to wire for an efi setup

there's  one connector that has 4 lines into it...  that one connector is the power line for everything on the engine harness.   which as far as i know is the only chassis harness connection.

DO IT.

firefoxthat engine is one of the easiest engines to wire for an efi setup

there's  one connector that has 4 lines into it...  that one connector is the power line for everything on the engine harness.   which as far as i know is the only chassis harness connection.
DO IT.

No I wasn't thinking pics, I was thinking get it in the engine bay and then post

ArroNo I wasn't thinking pics, I was thinking get it in the engine bay and then post

maybe this is a bit better??

got ambitious and hauled the car to the shop after work.. wasnt gona do it till tommorrow, but meh.. now its sittin there waiting for me for morning.. hehe.

and what a PITA to do!! Had to pump up tires, (go to shop and borrow air tank) clean my garage of all the crap stacked around the car, push it around so it wasnt shoved off to the side of the wall.

tow my Eagle out of the driveway and place on lawn.. (Trannies totaly done in it now.. *Sighs*)

Push and pull and drag merk to trailor and line up.. drag up onto trailor with a POS ratchetting chain hoist thingy, tie down, take to shop, unload.. etc etc.. get eagle of lawn before landloard finds out.. hehe

anyways.. just for whatever, I dunno, heres some pics of things getting a lil further along than before!!! but not much.. lol

car finaly in the bay.. (Its the bay beside mine since parts didnt show up for the durned Gallant thats totaly dissabled in my bay, and I didnt feel like pushing n pulling yet another car tonight to put it outside!!!!



my oldest boy "helped me* all evening...lol


the treasure itself:


The little gem in this treasure.. T03 i think it is...? (Although I have one of the "Good" Holsets sittin in my garage with a few other misc parts to go with it.. Got from a guy at work who switched his cummings over to twin turbo.. hehe)



Motor mount pic pass side


Sooo nice n simple!!! the ECU plugs into that harness.. so does the engine. then a wire or two for the starter and alt, and theres 3 more wires I hook up to the harness for the ECU.. and I bet half those plugs could be eliminated.. well, a few..lol



anyways, I should probably start up a new prjsect thread for the undertaking of this! also other things have come to mind. FOrd exploder 8.8" rear end, 95 n newer, for disc brakes. body work. S14 frnt end parts. more body work.. anyways.. one thing at a time.. its gona be a long while to get any one part done.. lol