ive noticed a few people offering mandrel bent turbo manifolds and claiming 2-4 psi gains and im wondering if anyone on here has one and if they noticed a difference. im only gonna buy one if theres some kind of performance gains, as im not into making the engine "pretty".
better flowing parts are good for gains, but is that really nessacary on a 250hp engine and not just to make it look nice?
julie @ Nov 26 2007, 02:03 PM
ive noticed a few people offering mandrel bent turbo manifolds and claiming 2-4 psi gains and im wondering if anyone on here has one and if they noticed a difference. im only gonna buy one if theres some kind of performance gains, as im not into making the engine "pretty".
better flowing parts are good for gains, but is that really nessacary on a 250hp engine and not just to make it look nice?
i havent found a decent bottom mount yet... so i guess ill keep the stock one for now. know any companies making nice ones?
for what motor?
turbos12 @ Nov 26 2007, 05:36 PM
for what motor?
oh man, I thought i was in the 20e forum! Keep in mind also with most aftermarket manifolds going around right now you will most likely have clearence issues with it in your s12 as these are designed with the s13 in mind. I know that keith had some clearence issues with his manifold. (cant remember if he got a top mount or not.) Also, I am running a 3 1/2 inch dump pipe and my o2 sensor barely does not touch my firewall on the stock manifold...so obviously there is a lack of space down there and changing manifolds is prolly going to complicate your exhaust routing from the turbo back.
SR20D21 @ Nov 26 2007, 06:42 PM
If I had to guess......Its in "CA18DET Tech" biggrin.gif However I Could be wrong
ill proly just stick with the stock one and make power elseware... save myself a few headaches for minor results
I remember when Bart was working actively on his S12, he made a really nice flowing turbo manifold for the CA18ET. No other mods, gave him 30ish more HP. Being the DET head flows better, and maybe the stock manifold is better, the gains wouldn't be as great. Just throwing it out there.
sam31183 @ Nov 27 2007, 02:07 AM
I know that keith had some clearence issues with his manifold. (cant remember if he got a top mount or not.)
Keith, I've heard the difference in placement with the eGay bottom mounts is about 10+mm lower and 10+mm forward....to my mind (not that I'm going to get one ATM and try) it should be fairly cheap to just have the turbo mounting flange cut off, 10+mm excess removed, and a new one welded on. My 2 cents. And ++1 for keeping A/C, it was a hottah! in Colorado this summer lol.
Julie, snoop around on some of the Aussie S12 and S13 websites. Your chances of finding a good mani are better from there, albeit the $$$ might scare the bejeezus out of you.
SmashedGlass @ Nov 28 2007, 07:04 PM
Keith, I've heard the difference in placement with the eGay bottom mounts is about 10+mm lower and 10+mm forward....to my mind (not that I'm going to get one ATM and try) it should be fairly cheap to just have the turbo mounting flange cut off, 10+mm excess removed, and a new one welded on. My 2 cents. And ++1 for keeping A/C, it was a hottah! in Colorado this summer lol.
Julie, snoop around on some of the Aussie S12 and S13 websites. Your chances of finding a good mani are better from there, albeit the $$$ might scare the bejeezus out of you.
You will need to shorten the oil drain pipe from the turbo, with the XS Power/eBay manifolds.
You will have better clearance with the dump pipe, but you will need to lengthen the front pipe a little.
extrude hone and ceramic coated stock manifold.
excess power/ss autocrap manifolds are very inconsistent, one persons results will vary greatly from anothers.
Mine has been fine (XS Power).
The heat markings are very consistant, which shows likewise with the quality and flow of the manifold.
However, like any manifold, be it new or second-hand, get the flanges re-faced on a mill. Otherwise you will be forever blowing gaskets.
im talking about inconsistant to one another.
as in, your manifold, and my manifold will have different dimensions.
i had 2 in my possesion, one moved the turbo down and foward, another down and back. i have a buddy in another state, his got moved up and made the down pipe hit the floor pan.
same goes for the o2 housings.
In regards to that, most of them come out of the same factory, and various companies who buy them usually have them specced to their preferences.
Obviously, their test vehicles may not be stock, but you get that.
im gonna say it has more to do with low quality control standards in chinese factories.
you are giving them way to much credit.
I'm going to sing the praises of my manifold until I do have a problem. At which point I will PM you, and vent my frustration.
brewster240 @ Dec 24 2007, 03:49 PM
extrude hone and ceramic coated stock manifold.
extrude honing is just to smooth out the flow, not change shape.
if you get it going to the point where it "makes a bad bend worse" someone is doing something wrong.
Agreed.
Extrude honing is only good on cast stuff, anyway. You'll get fk-all from something fabbed like an SS manifold.
Umai Naa @ Dec 27 2007, 02:30 AM
. You'll get fl-all from something fabbed like an SS manifold.
The stock manifold is cast.
An aftermarket stainless steel one isn't.
yeah, ok, thanks for stating the obvious. who said otherwise?
but wtf does
" You'll get fl-all from something fabbed like an SS manifold"
mean?
You would get fk-all gain from extrude honing your typical stainless steel aftermarket manifold, as opposed to extrude honing a cast one.
you'd get F-all benefit from extrude honing either
you'd be surprised.
i can tell.
the restrictions aren't due to surface finish, look at the terrible right angles and shapes inside the cast manifold. THAT is the restriction. But dont listen to me, I've only been working on CA18DET engines for 6 years
Ok, so we've established that you were looking for an argument.
I feel better for not taking the bait wink.gif
im not looking for an argument. i know im right. ive taken the time to do the research, and not just read about it on the internet.
he keeps making statements that arent true, and then tried to imply that because he has been working on ca's for 6 years he knows more then me.
you dont know who i am, you dont know who i share knowledge with
for all you guys know, a lot of info known in the usa about the ca could have, and was, discovered by me and a select few people way back in 00-01 when the nico ca community had about 10 active members.
you though, are on a different level of sorts, you guys in ca have a lot more experience with ca's in australia, that actually where i picked up a lot of info.
bottom line.
you will see a difference with a extrude honed stock cast manifold. will it be crazy power no, but good for a nice little increase, along with the ceramic coating that will help.
in back to back tests, me and another have also found that the stock manifold with a sr t25, s14 t28, and a sr20 gtir turbo will hit full boost earlier in the rpm, vrs a tubular megan manifold, but the megan/ss autochrome will make a higher peak, but not enough that either of us felt it was worth the low/mid loss.
brewster240 @ Dec 28 2007, 10:30 AM
in back to back tests, me and another have also found that the stock manifold with a sr t25, s14 t28, and a sr20 gtir turbo will hit full boost earlier in the rpm, vrs a tubular megan manifold, but the megan/ss autochrome will make a higher peak, but not enough that either of us felt it was worth the low/mid loss.
There are only a few guys over here that make manifolds for CAs at a reasonable price, but they're out of steam pipe.
OR, you could go to a JDM brand like Trust, or HKS (If you can find one). The Chinese ones are the go over here, as you can pick them up for very little money quite easily, and perform pretty good for what we pay for them. I'm actually looking at buying another one, for my other car, as I donated the one I was gonna use to my interim CA S12 project.
Umai Naa @ Dec 29 2007, 12:43 AM
There are only a few guys over here that make manifolds for CAs at a reasonable price, but they're out of steam pipe.
OR, you could go to a JDM brand like Trust, or HKS (If you can find one). The Chinese ones are the go over here, as you can pick them up for very little money quite easily, and perform pretty good for what we pay for them. I'm actually looking at buying another one, for my other car, as I donated the one I was gonna use to my interim CA S12 project.
For anywhere between $100 and $300AUD, you can have a neat stainless manifold. Factor in another $50 or so to have the flanges faced, and you're set.
haha, check out this piece of shit i aquired at some point over the years.
back in the day i made a log mani for my ca powered 510, i think i spent something around 100 on flanges and shit. used weld el's and ipe. im not gonna include weling gas etc, cause i would buy that anyway.
What's more amusing is the pic of the manifold sideways danny made.
It's alomost identical to my stainless Chinese one smile.gif
Umai Naa @ Dec 29 2007, 01:33 PM
What's more amusing is the pic of the manifold sideways danny made.
It's alomost identical to my stainless Chinese one smile.gif
There isn't really much difference besides how noumber 1 runner merges into the turbo flange.
Hope you didn't pay too much.
sideways danny @ Dec 29 2007, 05:43 PM
If you say so hahahahahahah, i think you may need an eye test. I didn't make it myself by the way, there was a group buy on them a couple of years ago. properly constructed and researched by a profesional manifold builder
brewster240 @ Dec 28 2007, 02:30 AM
he keeps making statements that arent true, and then tried to imply that because he has been working on ca's for 6 years he knows more then me.
you dont know who i am, you dont know who i share knowledge with
for all you guys know, a lot of info known in the usa about the ca could have, and was, discovered by me and a select few people way back in 00-01 when the nico ca community had about 10 active members.
Umai Naa @ Dec 29 2007, 06:01 PM
There isn't really much difference besides how noumber 1 runner merges into the turbo flange.
Hope you didn't pay too much.
Umai Naa @ Dec 30 2007, 02:01 AM
There isn't really much difference besides how noumber 1 runner merges into the turbo flange.
Hope you didn't pay too much.
I'll get more pictures this arvo. It's been on the car for the last 3 months. Yet to have a problem with it.
SR20D21 @ Dec 29 2007, 09:16 PM
gotta agree by just looking at the pics I would say the design, collectors and material are much better on danny's mani....sure its not all polished and pretty who cares!I have repaired those chinese manifolds to many times to count angry.gif
Don't be to quick to pat yourself on the back there are some people that have been messing with these engines(ca & sr)for a while in the states dry.gif
Besides the fact that its a true 4-2-1 collector to keep good flow and pressure. The chinese has barely any collector at all and will probably break before I finish typing this....... nope none at all.......Yes the chinese work better then stock but for all the headache I would just keep the stock log until I could afford to buy a well built one...
sideways danny @ Dec 26 2007, 09:54 PM
Extrude honing is bullshit, it makes a bad shaped bend worse.
Having said that the standard manifold is within its capabilities at 300bhp (flywheel) anyway