How To: Ca20et?

Started by TSchiefer · Oct 9, 2007 · 14postsInvision 2005–09

TSchieferOct 9, 2007, 5:44 am · #1

alright i am hoping you guys can help me out in this area. i have an 84 CA20E. i was hoping to boost it but am having a little trouble getting the information i need to do so. the block, and crank are fully machined. but im not sure which rods i could use. i have an Import Performance HP engine kit. it will be .040 over and should be right around 8.5 to 1 compression. i would like to know if i can use the stock 2.0 liter head? you know, before i have it rebuilt. or do i have to switch to the 1.8? also should i try and find a CA18ET ECU or can i use a Greddy piggy back with a rigged up map sensor? has anybody done this before? will it even work? im only shooting for about 160-180 horse, so it wont be too extravagant. if you guys have any ideas or suggestions please let me know itll be a huge help. in the mean time im going to keep looking and reading. doing my homework. thanks again.

sideways_s12Oct 9, 2007, 7:45 am · #2

the ca20 head would work just fine just have it rebuilt and port it so that it would breathe better also get the eurocam. As far as the ecu goes I'm not sure but I think you can use the et ecu. I'm sure someone else will chime in on that

lvDaveOct 9, 2007, 5:07 pm · #3

From what I understand to build a ca20et you need to swap quite a few thing from the ca18et. Basically you need to swap out all of the electronics to ca18et ones. You need the wiring harness, ecu, a few different sensors, and the distributor from the ca18et. Really the easiest way to make one would be to buy a turbo s12 with a bad motor and swap long blocks to a ca20e.

This post has been edited by lvDave: Oct 9 2007, 05:07 PM

200sxkitcarOct 10, 2007, 4:12 am · #4

TSchiefer @ Oct 9 2007, 05:44 AM
alright i am hoping you guys can help me out in this area. i have an 84 CA20E. i was hoping to boost it but am having a little trouble getting the information i need to do so. the block, and crank are fully machined. but im not sure which rods i could use. i have an Import Performance HP engine kit. it will be .040 over and should be right around 8.5 to 1 compression. i would like to know if i can use the stock 2.0 liter head? you know, before i have it rebuilt. or do i have to switch to the 1.8? also should i try and find a CA18ET ECU or can i use a Greddy piggy back with a rigged up map sensor? has anybody done this before? will it even work? im only shooting for about 160-180 horse, so it wont be too extravagant. if you guys have any ideas or suggestions please let me know itll be a huge help. in the mean time im going to keep looking and reading. doing my homework. thanks again.

You can use the Crower rods they have listed on their site. They are the only aftermarket rods I am aware of, and PLENTY good for your HP goals. Otherwise you could have ones made, but don't figure they will be much less. The stock head is fine CA20 and CA18 heads are identical aside from the cam, like they said, port it and if you want go with the 'eurocam' from Nismo (probably won't pass emissions with this). Shave the head so it has a clean surface. You might want a copper headgasket if the I.P. HP kit didn't come with one.

For the wiring/ecu, etc., try and locate a junkyard/parts car and remove the wiring harness, computer, sensors, distributor, coil packs and transistors, turbo manifold if you don't have one yet. There may be other stuff, this is a list off of the top of my head. Read the FSM on this site if you don't have one and study the different parts of the CA20 and CA18 systems so you know what you'll be working with and need.

Unless you need .040 over, try and remove as little material from the cylider walls as possible. They are not very thick and you are starting to compromise a bit. If you want a little extra power, turn up the boost a bit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Get a new fuel pump, hi-flow, like a Walbaro (spelling?), its a common thing do a search.

For additional fuel when you would like to go above the stock CA18ET computer's abilities, there are several methods you could use:

Rising rate fuel pressure regulator
S-AFC to adjust for larger injectors
I don't know about the Greddy thing, but its probably like the S-AFC.

If you are only shooting for 180HP tops, you may need to do nothing. The stock CA18ET system will provide fuel for the stock motor and turbo for up to around 12 psi.
**************************************************************
WHAT YOU MUST ABSOLUTELY NEED THO IS AN AIR-FUEL RATIO GAUGE! If you are going to tune (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) or even leave it stock, to make sure you don't run lean. This will depend a lot on the turbo you have and how much air it flows at a particular PSI. 10 PSI on a stock T2 and 10 PSI on a T3 are two totally different amounts of air, so you can't say you'll always be covered because if you ARE running the T3 more air is coming in and you will go lean sooner (at a lower PSI that is).

I could probably keep going, but just ask more i'm getting tired lol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Its really too bad, we went through all this stuff before the server changeover, and all of these questions had been answered in complete and verifiable form. Damn lol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

sideways_s12Oct 10, 2007, 8:49 pm · #5

you will pass smog with the eurocam mine did...

as long as you have all your emissions stuff togther you should be good mine wont pass smog now cuz I"ve eliminated the egr stuff and I have no cat so mine now will def not pass lol but if you go with the eurocam you should still be fine with smog

200sxkitcarOct 10, 2007, 11:06 pm · #6

Ah, it depends. Different areas have different requirements. Here in IL stuff will pass that won't even come close in some areas of southern CA, and even in CA it varies depending on your area/population.

Empedocles99Oct 11, 2007, 2:22 am · #7

This is the email I got from Pauter a year ago regarding ca20e rods:

Pauter Product Information <[email removed]>

Chris,
A set of 4 for your Nissan would be $784.00 plus shipping.

This post has been edited by Empedocles99: Oct 11 2007, 02:25 AM

JonBOct 11, 2007, 4:10 am · #8

Yeah. Emmissions is different not only by state but sometimes by county as well. Mine had to do a idle and 2500rpm test. Thats where most cars spend most time on the tach in daily driving. My CA20et did fine, but only after a rering and head knurle, but it had like 140,000 mile on it at the time. Its got about 160,000 on it now. I've only had the turbo on it for a 1000 to 2000 miles now. So I can't say for sure stock rods will take it. But mine sees boost every day(7 with a 10 spike). The CA20 rods do appear thinner, but they are longer witch reduces the stress on them.

Empedocles99Oct 11, 2007, 4:24 am · #9

JonB @ Oct 10 2007, 09:10 PM
Yeah. Emmissions is different not only by state but sometimes by county as well. Mine had to do a idle and 2500rpm test. Thats where most cars spend most time on the tach in daily driving. My CA20et did fine, but only after a rering and head knurle, but it had like 140,000 mile on it at the time. Its got about 160,000 on it now. I've only had the turbo on it for a 1000 to 2000 miles now. So I can't say for sure stock rods will take it. But mine sees boost every day(7 with a 10 spike). The CA20 rods do appear thinner, but they are longer witch reduces the stress on them.

How does the fact that they are longer reduce stress?

200sxkitcarOct 12, 2007, 2:58 am · #10

Actually, with the rod being longer there is more chance for it to break. It gets thrown around at more extreme angles and the piston speeds are higher due to a greater length of displacement and the farther the throw of the crank (the greater the offset compared to the centerline). Its kind of hard to explain, it was explained to me once by an engineer and it made sense. If you think about it some, it may make more sense. The longer the rod, the more extreme the angles of operation are and more force that may come upon it.

Alex FrostOct 13, 2007, 1:12 am · #11

The CA20 is awesome for getting you from point A to point B but that is all. The Greddy e-manage, plus the cost to turbo and rebuild the CA20 makes it not worth it. If all you want is 160-180hp just swap in a CA18DET and run 7-10 psi. It will be cheaper and reliable.

NemisisOct 13, 2007, 6:53 am · #12

Why not take your CA20E and instead of boosting it, make it a high compression motor. Port the head as much as possible, send out your cam (forgot the name of the place, but I'm sure somebody else will remember) for a re-grind that will give you a dramatic power increase. Then grab the stronger Pauter rods, and the highest compression pistons you can get. If the clearance at TDC is still okay (piston doesn't bang the valves on it's upstroke) I would say shave the head and use a thin copper headgasket.

Basically I want to see how much power can be squeezed out of a NA CA20E. Its not like anything is custom made, just kinda expensive.

If I had the money I'd do it. Just to see everyone here shit themselves when they see the dyno sheet, and I tell them "Yea, all motor CA20E did that!"

OzchuckOct 13, 2007, 3:43 pm · #13

Noones going to be impressed by a super expensive 120HP engine... all motor or not.

You cant use a Greddy piggyback with a map sensor, as they're just a fuel adjuster, they wont be able stand alone to be programmed for the various things you're doing. All the do is change the fuel signal, you still need to use a compatible computer for the engine.
However, in this way you can use a CA20 head and ECU and use it to tune the fuel map.

If you have a CA20 head, use that with the CA20 ECU, and do a manifold change. if you hav a ca18ET head, you can use that.

For the money you seem to want to burn, you should just use the CA18DET, its a superior motor. you would only keep the single cam CA's if you were wanting to enter a specific race series that required original engine setups.
Seriously, a forged CA20 block is going to cost you a LOT more than a fresh CA18DET, and its not in any way going to last as long. so you should just use that.

In regards to longer rods being stronger, yes, they can be, when the rod is a lot longer than the stroke of the crank, the angle of the rod is straighter. If you have a short rod it can be at like 45º to the piston, and this doubles the load on the rod.

But as I said, Single cam 8 plug engines are bad. they are the things that gave 4 cylinder engines a bad name in the first place!

Once again, please use the CA20 block as a coffee table. A CA18DET will make more power more easily and will handle your power levels without a rebuild.
My CA18DET has done a lot of kilomters at over 200HP, with lots of drifting. it's awesome.
By comparison, a CA18DET with a very small boost up will make your requested power level, while costing less than the rods for your CA20.

JonBOct 14, 2007, 2:40 am · #14

Yes, the longer the stroke the more angle on the rod. Only reduced by the length of the rod. The longer the rod the less stress on it for a givin displacement. If you measure the angle of a straight line between a givin point(piston pin) and a 3" off set point(stroke) a 5' you'll find that the angle is more extreme than if you measured that distance at 7'(longer rod). Yes, the longer a givin component the greater leverage any givin force will have on it. Thats not all there is to it though.