Turbo Header Construction

Keeps getting better!! What did you end up doing.......shorten # 2-3 runners?

Hmm... is it me or does that seem it's gonna hit the steering column or something?

Keeps getting better!! What did you end up doing.......shorten # 2-3 runners?

no i added length to runner #1&4...look closely....

Hmm... is it me or does that seem it's gonna hit the steering column or something?

nope but i'll double check tommorow.... but if i remember i had at least 4-5inches to play with so i should be good

Ahhhhh, I see. I assume it still clears everything....like the A/C comp?

Ahhhhh, I see. I assume it still clears everything....like the A/C comp?

not sure yet it was raining when i finished so i didnt fit it...

Hope it does!! Let me know. How close is the # 1 runner to the dist. cap?

Hope it does!! Let me know. How close is the # 1 runner to the dist. cap?

not very close at all the runner go straight out of the head not up so the dist shold have plenty of room

Not to rush you or anything.....but any ideas on how soon to completion, and testing?

im hoping to have the collector squared away by the weekend as well as the o2 housing... then tearing it apart and rewelding with a tig.. then off to ceramic coating.. hey did you ever get some quotes for this...can u call and find out

Yeah.....I'll try and call tomorrow and get some quotes.
Worse comes to worse......when the time comes you can just send it un-coated, and I'll get it done here.
How about the waste gate? You have any connections for good prices on a new deltagate?
How about this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7940059474&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Yeah.....I'll try and call tomorrow and get some quotes.
Worse comes to worse......when the time comes you can just send it un-coated, and I'll get it done here.
How about the waste gate? You have any connections for good prices on a new deltagate?
How about this one? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33742&item=7940059474&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

i'll get my buddy to get me a quote on new ones...

oh and ya that deltagate bid is worth it if it stays under 100

im hoping to have the collector squared away......
hahah pun intended? ;)

Ok well get us pictures of it on the head as presently tacked up.

Looks better and better as Keith said.

I like the TiAL 35mm, a solid piece, superior to Deltagate.

But Deltagate is far superior to internal gate :D

I like the TiAL 35mm, a solid piece, superior to Deltagate.

But Deltagate is far superior to internal gate :D

for our application a deltagate would be good enough

ok so the collector will be a tad harder then i thought....hmmm time for a a nice long mental session with the metal gods...lol

104 trap now who did that( i havent seen any slips to prove that)...... ya the t2 turbine side is restrictive but the mani is almost as bad and when you use it with a larger turbo thats just as restrictive as the t2 turbine side.. not saying you cant use it but if you want the t3 to do the job its supposed too then you have to dump it and make a custom

He's refering to my G-Tech time of 14.19 @ 106.5mph. Grassroots Motorsports tested the G-Tech and the Passport G-Timer and it showed the G-Tech tended to be about .2 of a second slower on the ET, and about 2mph faster (since it measures trap speed as you cross the line) on their SRT-4. I never really posted it because I wasn't happy with my launch yet. The nearest 1/4 mile track to me is 3 hours away, so I haven't been to a real track yet. I'd love to see what it could do with some VHT on the line, maybe I can afford a clutch that doesn't slip by then. Centerforce really means it when they say 90% more than stock, no more.

As for the manifold, the stock manifold isn't terrible. It's a bit small, but the bends aren't terrible, and really, with the size of the exhaust ports and exhaust valves, it's probably sized about right. Anything bigger might just cut down on exhaust velocity without increasing flow (since you would still be limited by the head). The exhaust runners are seperated in the stock manifold to (with 1&4 paired and 2&3 paired), so it helps there. Having individual runners (like your design) would probably be a little better though.

I know you haven't got the turbo flange on there yet, but it looks like it you will probably need to have a pretty thick flange in order for the compressor housing to clear your number 1 and 2 runners. You may run into a problem with hood clearance with a very thick flange though. Also, if the compressor sits right above the runners, you might have a problem with heat soak on the compressor, which would be bad. Remember, aluminium burns. Maybe you can make the #1 and 2 runners head towards the front of the car rather than straight down, but the distrobutor is there (as well as the P/S pump).

I'm not trying to discourage you, since it would be really nice to see a tubular style manifold with a T3 flange. Also, with it being top mount, it will make the downpipe a lot easier to make. Me and Mr Bob tried making a tubular manifold back when I put the t3 on my car, but our bender wouldn't bend tight enough, so we have some idea of how hard it is to make one for this head. Another benefit of top mount, you won't have to change your engine mount to clear a large compressor. I believe McMaster-Carr sells some tight raidus bends that aren't too expensive in case you need some. It's where we got the tight 90 degree bend for my downpipe.

how tight of a radius can you get with 1.75diameter

He's refering to my G-Tech time of 14.19 @ 106.5mph. Grassroots Motorsports tested the G-Tech and the Passport G-Timer and it showed the G-Tech tended to be about .2 of a second slower on the ET, and about 2mph faster (since it measures trap speed as you cross the line) on their SRT-4..

no offense but i dont believe those at all....theres no replacement for a real track......but the #'s do give rough #'s

As for the manifold, the stock manifold isn't terrible. It's a bit small, but the bends aren't terrible, and really, with the size of the exhaust ports and exhaust valves, it's probably sized about right. Anything bigger might just cut down on exhaust velocity without increasing flow (since you would still be limited by the head).

i disagree the stock mani has what maybe 3/4-1inch runners with huge deflections in the way to clear room for the nuts...theres no way that mani will flow more then the head would allow.....also my head will be fully p/p and 3angle valve job... as far as velocity.. it will be improved since there will be way less restriction in the flow thru the mani then the stock unit........and the t28 i have should be a good comp to yours since it has a t3 50trim compressor housing

I know you haven't got the turbo flange on there yet, but it looks like it you will probably need to have a pretty thick flange in order for the compressor housing to clear your number 1 and 2 runners.You may run into a problem with hood clearance with a very thick flange though

thats where the collector comes into play it will determine the position of the turbo giving plenty of clearence including clearence for my strut bar...

. Also, if the compressor sits right above the runners, you might have a problem with heat soak on the compressor,

not really the whole header will be ceramic coated whcih will keep most the heat off and i can always make a heat shield for under the compressor housing

how tight of a radius can you get with 1.75diameter

http://www.mmr-direct.com/Pictures/untitled.bmp

1.75 is way to big. Turbochargered small block chevys don't run header tubes that big. I wouldn't go over 1 3/8s I.D.

no offense but i dont believe those at all....theres no replacement for a real track......but the #'s do give rough #'s

We will get it to a real track as soon as we can and I'm sure the trap speed will ge in the 103 to 105 range. Maybe higher depending on how much higher we go with the boost.

i disagree the stock mani has what maybe 3/4-1inch runners with huge deflections in the way to clear room for the nuts...theres no way that mani will flow more then the head would allow.....also my head will be fully p/p and 3angle valve job... as far as velocity.. it will be improved since there will be way less restriction in the flow thru the mani then the stock unit........and the t28 i have should be a good comp to yours since it has a t3 50trim compressor housing
The runners on the stock manifold are the same size as the exhaust ports. Ports on a turbo engine are intenionally kept small so that exhaust velocity stays high. And since you are making these to sell, you should take into consideration that your head may be ported, but few other people will. T28s have 60 trim compressors. T25Gs have 50 trims. http://www.nissansilvia.co.nz/faq.htm#1

they use 1-3/4id
http://www.cartech.net/fordturbofox.htm

these use up to 2inch
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=34078&cat_id=2&cat_name=Exhaust%20Systems&sc_id=9&sc_name=Headers

called them up...1.75 piping as well

http://www.hopupracing.com/jicmaexmajsp.html

This gets so damned frustrating... Bart is trying to give us something nobody else is, and that will be better than what we have by a landslide, and we (I use that loosely) are nitpicking?

A small block Chevy has a buttload less backpressure than a turbo manifold... and basically, the goal is to lose sharp bends and gain equal lengths, not to worry about a bit bigger or a bit smaller diameters. You are nitpicking. It's pretty obvious looking at his tacked up prototype that it will neatly direct the gases evenly to the collector and really ram the turbine nicely with even pressure. If you're gonna get out micrometers and rulers and a flowbench, you are wasting time in the real world in the case of this manifold versus the stocker.

And to top it off, having come from the DSM camp and spending considerable time in the largest west coast DSM-only shop, seeing literally dozens of setups with custom headers, that Bart's is using no special diameter than what they used, and I don't even begin to doubt that Road Race Engineering in Santa Fe Springs, CA (look them up) has more experience tuning four cyllinder turbo engines than ANYBODY including myself on this forum.

But by all means, challenge that :laugh:

they use 1-3/4id
http://www.cartech.net/fordturbofox.htm

They use 1 3/4" primarys on and engine that makes 650 to 1000+ hp.

these use up to 2inch
http://www.overboost.com/obs/product.asp?pid=34078&cat_id=2&cat_name=Exhaust%20Systems&sc_id=9&sc_name=Headers

That header is for a natually asperated, high revving, DOHC engine that makes 50 more hp without turbocharging than the CA18ET does with it.

called them up...1.75 piping as well

http://www.hopupracing.com/jicmaexmajsp.html (http://www.hopupracing.com/jicmaexmajsp.html)

2.0, DOHC, 200+ hp stock, 7500rpm redline. Sounds like a CA18ET to me.

This gets so damned frustrating... Bart is trying to give us something nobody else is, and that will be better than what we have by a landslide, and we (I use that loosely) are nitpicking?
First of all, you are bitching at me about nitpicking? I don't mean to pan Bart's efforts I'm just trying to offer some constructive critisim.

A small block Chevy has a buttload less backpressure than a turbo manifold
Did you even read what I said?

... and basically, the goal is to lose sharp bends and gain equal lengths, not to worry about a bit bigger or a bit smaller diameters.
1.75" id tubing has a cross-sectional area that is 62% larger than 1 3/8" tubing. Thats not a bit bigger or a bit smaller. Thats a huge difference.

It's pretty obvious looking at his tacked up prototype that it will neatly direct the gases evenly to the collector and really ram the turbine nicely with even pressure. If you're gonna get out micrometers and rulers and a flowbench, you are wasting time in the real world in the case of this manifold versus the stocker.
Unless there are sharp corners in the stock manifold (which there aren't), tight bends with smooth radii aren't going to impede flow. I get out micrometers and rulers and flowbenches because thats what engineers do. Do you think that Corkey Bell takes a pile of bent steel tubing and throws it at a car then looks at it and says "ah, that looks 'bout right".

And to top it off, having come from the DSM camp and spending considerable time in the largest west coast DSM-only shop, seeing literally dozens of setups with custom headers, that Bart's is using no special diameter than what they used, and I don't even begin to doubt that Road Race Engineering in Santa Fe Springs, CA (look them up) has more experience tuning four cyllinder turbo engines than ANYBODY including myself on this forum.
Yeah, way to expand your horizons there. Go to one shop all the time and learn their ways and mindset and take it as the gospel truth. And yes, I looked a Road Race Engineerings website and what did I see, that they prefer a stock manifold.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclturbos.htm
These have the same runner diameter as the 2G exhaust manifolds but they have the larger collector (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/evo/evoman-2gman2.jpg) that matches the larger inlet to a 16G with a 7cm exhaust housing. They do save a lot of time porting however. They are a direct bolt on for a 2G, they require the same slight trimming on one corner when used on a 1G to clear the P/S bracket as a 2G manifold would need. We also have the factory sealing rings (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/evo/evoman-7cmring.jpg) to fit the 7cm size opening (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/evo/evoman-ringinevoman.jpg). This gives the gasket some protection (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/evo/evoman-ringin7cmhousing.jpg) if you leave the step there on the manifold and the turbo.
We originally planned to make our own manifold, but we could not bend the piping tight enough fit in the engine bay. Instead we made an adapter plate to bolt to the stock manifold. It is two metal plates. One plate has a T25 flange for where it bolts to the manifold. The other plate has the T3 flange. It is held together by three sets of bolts. One set of 4 bolts holds the two plates together. The other two sets of bolts go to the manifold and the turbo. After we made it, we ported it and the manifold to have a reasonably smooth flow.
But by all means, challenge that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by One_Equals_Two
We originally planned to make our own manifold, but we could not bend the piping tight enough fit in the engine bay.

But by all means, challenge that.

uhh if i was able to do it why couldnt you....

my first thought when i wanted to make this header was to create a "race header"(with ease of turbo removal and also ability to use whatever turbo you want.. all i need to do is use a different turbo flange and i can use garrett, mitsu...etc) that you could use with mild mods and also full race applications...... i guess i will have to flow bench and backpressure test both manis and see what #'s i get

Originally Posted by bartc_j
called them up...1.75 piping as well

http://www.hopupracing.com/jicmaexmajsp.html

2.0, DOHC, 200+ hp stock, 7500rpm redline. Sounds like a CA18ET to me.

hmm if they make tuby manis for a barely 200+hp sr then...hmm sounds like mine minus the dohc... we'll just have to see what happens i guess...

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclturbos.htm
Quote:
These have the same runner diameter as the 2G exhaust manifolds but they have the larger collector that matches the larger inlet to a 16G with a 7cm exhaust housing. They do save a lot of time porting however. They are a direct bolt on for a 2G, they require the same slight trimming on one corner when used on a 1G to clear the P/S bracket as a 2G manifold would need. We also have the factory sealing rings to fit the 7cm size opening. This gives the gasket some protection if you leave the step there on the manifold and the turbo.

Yeah, way to expand your horizons there. Go to one shop all the time and learn their ways and mindset and take it as the gospel truth. And yes, I looked a Road Race Engineerings website and what did I see, that they prefer a stock manifold.

lol... where does it say they prefer the stock one...if you at all have been around any dsm guy you wold know that the one they prefer is this one

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/garrettcastmanifold-top.jpg
Cast Tubular Exhaust Manifold For Garrett Turbos
This cast manifold allows the use of any Garrett T-3 exhaust housing on the Eclipse 4G63 turbo motor. It has a thick flange to the cylinder head, large diameter runners and a nice collector section. It has a flange for the Delta Gate external waste gate on the number one runner. A Delta Gate or new small TiAL external waste gate can be bolted directly on with the dump tube pointed downwards or you may weld a tube to a flange and mount any other brand waste gate further down.

yes its cast but its nowhere near the stock size.. the runners are way larger.. it can easily support 800+hp....

Looks good Bart... Power levels i'm sure it will do fine and provide an awful lot of more flow over stock...
Only thing i've been worried about in the whole thing with you making this mani is bracing and not having it break... Which from what we talked about you should be ok

I like the new version of it i'm glad you decided to do it like that..

Next up... Me and you are making one for my Bluebird :)

Looks good Bart... Power levels i'm sure it will do fine and provide an awful lot of more flow over stock...
Only thing i've been worried about in the whole thing with you making this mani is bracing and not having it break... Which from what we talked about you should be ok

thanks .... the way i have designed my bracing about 70-80% of the weight will be transfered off my tubing and onto the main flange so breaking will not be a issue...

I like the new version of it i'm glad you decided to do it like that..

Next up... Me and you are making one for my Bluebird :)

no prob...it should be easier since your ports are nicely shaped and spaced...

Man, I need to check the board more often so I can hop in the flame wars too. :)

Anyway, you're right, if you have the tubes coated it should cut down on the heat a lot so it shouldn't have any serious issues with heat soak. Also, if you do the 3 angle valve job and get some bigger valves in there, then the bigger runners would be better. It is better to have smaller runners on a turbo car in order to keep exhaust velocity up, but you don't want to restrict flow either, as you know. I think it would be good to go a little larger than the stock size, but not a whole lot larger. Just my opinion, don't take it as an attack on you or anything. I think you're a pretty bright guy Bart and you've done a lot of good for the board.

Here is a good website about making a turbo manifold as well, http://www.sdsefi.com/techheader.htm. They used 1 3/8" ID tubing for their Toyota 22R. That engine uses a T3/T4 turbo, but they don't specify how much power they are making.

The manifold does neck down some to clear the studs, but I don't think that I would really call it a huge deflection. There are definitely gains to be found with a new mainfold, but you might not want to go with runners sized to flow a power level no one is going to achieve. Something sized to flow 1,000hp isn't going to work well for someone making 200hp.

Putting the manifold on a flow bench wouldn't show a whole lot I would imagine. A manifold with bigger runners would definitely flow more than one with smaller runners just like a 110mm throttle body would flow more than a 60mm TB, it doesn't mean you should work to adapt a 110mm TB. Unless your head is capable of flowing that much, anything extra is just going to lower your velocity and increase spool up time.

It would rock if we could put them on a dyno back to back. I think that would be the best way to show off the improvements. It's a shame most of us are financially challenged and don't have the resources to do that. If someone would like to step up though, I think it would be really useful.

Your t-28 and my t3 I suppose would be comparable, but it depends on how you are going to compare them. Your's will spool up much earlier since you have a t25 turbine housing vs my t3 turbine housing, but for the same reason, mine should make a little bit more power (although with your newer engine and euro cam, that probably might not hold true). The compressor is the exact same however as MrBob mentioned earlier.

We originally planned to make our own manifold, but we could not bend the piping tight enough fit in the engine bay.

uhh if i was able to do it why couldnt you....

Our bender will only bend with a maximum radius of about 24 inches. That's why. We didn't have the time or money to buy prebent pieces. Since I'm a college student (like a lot of other people on the board), I don't have the money to do things the best way all the time. I'm proud of the fact that I got the whole turbo swapped for about $150 (excluding the price of the turbo). It would have been nice to go to a tubular stlye (and we wanted to), but pre-bent pieces are pretty expensive compared to bending it yourself.
(I really only mention it just because I wanted to see a quote of a quote of a quote)

we'll just have to see what happens i guess...

I agree 100%. There's not a lot of point in talking too much theory here since no one has head their head flowed (as far as I know) so it would be impossible to use theory to size runners. Trial and error is the way to go here and even if it doesn't work well the first time, the dyno would show how it could be improved. Who knows, it might come out really really well, but if it is never produced, we won't know. In my original post I was just wanting to make sure that the turbo didn't heatsoak and would clear the hood and the manifold. I wasn't trying to nit pick. I feel like those are pretty important items. Now if I told you it was a shit manifold because it didn't clear my specific intercooler piping or something like that, I would definitely feel guilty about it. I don't care how you want to make the manifold, you're the one making it, I just thought I would offer my advice for it. You can completely ignore it you want, I can be wrong too.

Some more advice, if you are going to add a spot for an external wastegate, do it more like this SS autochrome manifold, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7939930375&category=33632 as opposed to the terrible setup on that DSM manifold with the "way larger" runners. The SS Autochrome wastegate will see the exhaust from all the cylinders and you won't have one runner with a lower EGT and back pressure than all the others. It's better for flow and boost control as well.

Also, for the accuracy of the G-Tech, the only real article I've seen on it was done by Grassroots motorsports. It was pretty close to the 1/4 mile times the track gave. It was a little pessimistic, while the Passport G-Timer was very optimistic, and the other one they tested (I can't remember what it is called, maybe something V700?) was also a bit pessimistic. I don't have the article right now, but I'll try to make some scans of it later and post them in a new thread so everyone can read it. Really, the point behind one is to use it for its consistency, not its accuracy. That way you can do one run as a baseline, then one with the modification to see which worked better. I'll try to get out to a track when they open up in the spring because I too would like to see how it really compares. Just for comparision, my best run on the T2 at 14psi was 14.99 @ 98.5 mph (my average run was at about 15.0 to 15.1). Assuming you drop the MPH by about 3 (since it doesn't average like a 1/4), you get about 95 mph. My car made 150 hp on that turbo and Bart's made 160. Bart's best run on street tires looks to be a [email removed], so it's not a long ways off, maybe a bit optimistic.

If you're gonna get out micrometers and rulers and a flowbench, you are wasting time in the real world in the case of this manifold versus the stocker.

You always crack me up Jason. Of course physics don't apply in the real world if you drive a Nissan!

yes its cast but its nowhere near the stock size.. the runners are way larger.. it can easily support 800+hp....
Right, thats why Road Race Engineering sells all those Garrett turbos on their website, instead of Mitsubishis. And I'm sure that the flow requirements for an 800hp 4G63, a 2.0 7000+ rpm DOHC engine, are the same as a 250hp CA18ET.

Now, an excerpt from Turbocharges by Hughs MacInns. Chapter 8, page 70.

"On a racing car, exhaust pipes from the individual cylinders are sometimes cut to certain length. These primary pipes are usually brought together in a collector. The scheme is to use normal exhaust pulses to assist the flow of exhaust gases from the engine.
The exhaust system should not only rob the engine of as little power as possible, it should enhance power.
Turbochargered-engine exhaust systems are different. They duct the hot, high pressure, high velocity gases from the engine to the turbocharger. This temperature, pressure and velocity should be maintained as much as possible.
A turbine housing increases exhaust-gas velocity to about 2000 feet per second. This increase in velocity is nessecary to maintain turbine speed. For example, the tip speed of a 3-inch-diameter turbine wheel is about 1600 feet per second at 120,000 rpm.
Any velocity or pressure lost in the exhaust system must be regained in the turbine housing. Let's say the exhaust gas comes out of the exhaust port of the engine at about 300 feet per second. Not much is gained if it is slowed to 100 feet per second, then is speeded up to 2000 feet per second in the turbine housing.
For this reason, an extremely large diameter exhaust manifold is not recommended. The exhaust port area is about right for the cross-sectional area of the manifold runners. "

hmm if they make tuby manis for a barely 200+hp sr then...hmm sounds like mine minus the dohc... we'll just have to see what happens i guess...
Yep, long as there is someone out there with money there will be someone else trying to sell them something.

hmm if they make tuby manis for a barely 200+hp sr then...hmm sounds like mine minus the dohc... we'll just have to see what happens i guess...
Just in case anyone is interested the extractor manifold for SR20 is pretty popular locally. The SS autochrome one i have is very common (due to several group buys, low cost and the fact that no one has cracked one yet) and has been dyno tested by several people. On a mostly stock SR (basic mods, exhaust, filter, boost) with stock turbo it gives around 5kw@rw, with a GT28 it gives around 7kw@rw, with some turbo combinations i'm told it makes up to 12kw@rw gains. I'd expect the CA18ET to make similar gains with a nice manifold.

the reason i choose 1.75od is cause from my port/polish the circumferance of the ports was equal to the cercumfrance of the 1.75 tubing... thats why i choose it...i can easily redo this setup using 1-5/8

also i plan on dynoing my car now and then after i get the mani on(with the same head as i have now) put the same t25 i run now on and dyno it again.. and see what the gains are.. both in hp and spool....

:lol: I dont believe it, you think there are 800 hp DSMs just cruising around? There aren't even many 800hp SUPRAS in North America :lol:

Again, I spent considerable time IN THEIR SHOP, and with the owner. So stick a fork in me, I am now done with this conversation.

UPDATE: 12/13/04

heres a mock up of the mani and t28 in my bay......rough layout..

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/243105_294_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/243105_295_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_img_a/243105_296_full.jpg

your distributor cap is way different from mine.

your distributor cap is way different from mine.
mine too

Whoa! That is one funky dist. cap! I've never seen one like that on an S12...

Looks good though. One question, can you get at the valve cover without removing the turbo?

Man, that things gonna be pretty...

Hrmm....pics don't work for me...I've tried to cut and paste them into a new window. :wall:

your distributor cap is way different from mine.

its basically a ca20e cap,,, my jap motor came with the dist but the bolt pattern wouldnt match my normal cap so i had to use a ca20e

Hrmm....pics don't work for me...I've tried to cut and paste them into a new window. :wall:

pics dont work cause of the server probs we are having.. if you right click and go to properties and then paste the addy in a new window the pics should work... thats what i have done to get them to work

Man that looks sick. You can put me down for one.

sweet thanks for the props.. man i cant wait to finish it.. id have it done by this weekend but i have finals this week so time just isnt in my corner

another update... had some more time to play with the header.. here some pic of it tacked together.... i still need to clean up the joints and then they will be tig welded...
Will you be doing the TIG welding Bart? Or will that be outsourced to a welding shop?

i'll do it

hmmmm, none of the pics work now by pasting in new window. What gives??

never mind....I got it.
Hows the collector coming along?