ae86 or 510

which do you believe the s12 is more like?

In what way? I think the S12 looks a lot more like an AE86 than it does a 510. But, the suspension setup is almost exactly like a 510. So, what is this pool really asking?

I think he means in terms of the crowd which will adopt the car and modify it. The AE86 is very mainstream, heavy aftermarket support, and any little ricer kid with a subscription to Import Tuner magazine wants an AE86. The 510 has gone more grassroots. Mostly just Nissan enthusiasts who purchase them, modifications for them are minimal and mostly DIY jobs, and the 510 is rarely featured in national magazines.

Which does the S12 resemble more? IMO, the 510.

If that's what he means, then I definitely agree with you that the S12 is more like the 510.

ya 510.. i have seen many articles in alot of car mags about the 510 but like you said dan most of the mods are diy so ricers stay away from that

I don't think it'll be like either really, the AE86 is popular now because it was popular (among racers) when new and had extensive aftermarket backing because people raced them. The same is true with the 510, but the S12 never made nearly as big a splash in the racing world, did it? Hard to compare with winning Trans-Am championships and such...and that was just in the US.
I think the S12 will continue to be a sleeper.

I don't think it'll be like either really, the AE86 is popular now because it was popular (among racers) when new and had extensive aftermarket backing because people raced them. The same is true with the 510, but the S12 never made nearly as big a splash in the racing world, did it? Hard to compare with winning Trans-Am championships and such...and that was just in the US.
I think the S12 will continue to be a sleeper.

with this place give us a few more years and you will see a wave of change

agreed, already aftermarket support is growing.

Based upon the fac that cheap AE's are becoming harder to find, and drifting is becomming more popular, I feel it is just a matter of time before the S12 joins the ranks in the main drift crowd...

I'm gonna have to say AE 86, because it's do much alike in looks, it's only a matter of time before others realize it.

Hard decision... I think it has the best of both worlds. AE86 styling cues, with 510 heritage... I cant decide. The most screwed up thing about the AE86 though, is that it has a solid axle... Not IRS. Thats where the S12 can dust the AE if we get enough support;)

Im gonna go with the 510. Because nissan is the sh**. :headbang:

Thats where the S12 can dust the AE if we get enough support
The IRS isn't nessessarily better you know.
The 510 (datto 1600 we call it here) is pretty commonly featured in car magazines over here with SR FJ or CA power (although less commonly latey cos it's a very common conversion). Mechanically the S12 and the 510 are very similar, the hachi just looks the same....how to vote how to vote....

I voted 86. They look very similar and were designed for similar purposes. With the S12 being more luxurious and refined than the AE86.

Ahh but you see we already dust the 86. Pull up to one at a stop light with nothing more than a boost controller on your turbo S12 and enjoy their beautiful exhaust note become to soft to hear as you pull away. That and the inventory of brutish nissan turbo engines should clearly denote who's packing more heat.

As far as aftermarket I don't hear any turbo owners complaining about engine parts and bolt-ons. The only real things we lack are suspension parts, and off the shelf exhausts and intercooler kits (which aren't really that big of a deal)

I personally hope the only thing that comes to help us is the suspension companies. I'd be perfectly happy with the USDM 200SX being confused with that B14 POS and nobody really knowing the potential of these cars. However it is inevitable. As AE86's got gouged people went to the silvia's and as the "prettier" S13-5 get snatched up and over priced. They will move on to other cars. I'm kind of surprised this isn't happening already.

As soon as an S12 gets featured in a Magazine as a feature article you can bet people will start to take notice and it's only a matter of time until these cars become more popular. If that day ever comes, which i'm sure it will eventually.

As soon as an S12 gets featured in a Magazine as a feature article you can bet people will start to take notice and it's only a matter of time until these cars become more popular. If that day ever comes, which i'm sure it will eventually.
My prediction is spring time...:|

The Eight-six wasn't even known by mainstream North America until the Initial D craze hit. Before that, everyone on this side of the world was interested in bright, curvy, big-wheeled H4-lit ricemobiles with huge single turbos and huge front mount IC's. Honda was king, and Toyota was second fiddle, with the Supra their only spotlight stealer.

Then came the tofu delivery car, and since then, everyone and their brother wants a North American '86 Corolla to slap on some old-school jap-race wheels and slide around sideways. All the die-hard Honda boyz from before are either powersliding out of control to try to be "in" with the new "in crowd" (drift fans), or selling their H-mobile for an 8-6.

All the other RWD imports out there want in, too. And the North American 1986 Corolla, which was selling for around $500-1,000 for fair condition, is now presently selling sometimes for $5,000 and up. And then of course, they all want the 16v JDM engine of Initial D fame: The 4A-GE (since finding a 4A-GTE is like finding a needle in a haystack).

So here you have it. A bunch of kids want RWD lightweight hatches now. Since the RWD Corolla in good condition is hard to come by (for a reasonable price), they start poking around.

Some of them will snatch up late 80's Supras and cope with the really heavy chassis that seems to thwart their best drifting efforts. Some will go with old Celicas and Celica-Supras from the early 80's, with dreams of sugar plums and 2JZ/1JZ-GE/GTE swaps, but not having the $$$ needed to do it and make it work right.

Many will grab the nearest 240SX, and swap in the proven formula of an SR20DET.

Others will say screw drifting (give up) and turn to a Subie or a new Evo, or an RX-8.

And then... some will notice the few decent RWD 4-cyl turbocharged cars to be built in the 80's. The Chrysler Conquest (Mitsubishi Starion), The first-generation Isuzu Impulse Turbo, and lastly (and certainly not least), the 80's Nissan 200SX Turbo -- a RWD, lightweight, factory-turbocharged four cyllinder car... way undertuned and with plenty of potential.

None of the weight problems of the late 80's Supra, none of the mechanical drivetrain issues of the StarQuests, easier to work on than the 1G Impulse turbo, and looks that so closely resemble an AE86, you can almost mistake them for each other as they pass you on the street.

With this discovery, they also sometimes find ot that many of the popular Nissan engine swaps sit nicely in an S12 engine bay, which gives them a HUGE edge over AE's. Not to mention a modestly tuned OEM turbo engine (CA18ET) will, as was so well put in this thread, "blow the doors" off of one.

So despite the heritage of our cars, we are certainly in the same category as an AE86: We are a lightweight, RWD, boxy 80's hatchback that can be drifted nicely.

Besides, if you consider it from a Nissan point of view (for those of you who said "510"), if anything, we are further removed from 510, and certainly closer to the Z. I think it was titled best in an article back in '84, when they referred to the S12 as "Son of Z". We literally share the suspension and much of the chassis innovations that lead to the Z31, while retaining much of the electronics tricks used in the 280ZX.

As far as the engines go, the CA engine family has little in common with the L-series four cyllinders. It's its own animal. So I can't see much in common with the 510, other than a handful of common Nissan methods for designing things, and the fact that it's a Nissan RWD. And that's about where the comparison ends.

We certainly have more in common with Z's than anything else, but as far as how we might be recognized and grouped in the overall import fan world, we'd be stuck alongside of AE86 before the Z.

So I picked the 86.

Arro,
Very well written post. That was actually quite good reading, thanks.

Uhh hmm forgive my rotary ignorance, but how can you say that an s12 looks anything remotely to a datsun 510?? I think am Rx-3 or an Rx-4 looks more like a 510 than an S12 does, but thats just me, I stare at wankels all day... :-p

read the whole thread, not about looks.

Ha! No, it's as much about looks as it is mechanicals, and in either case as I stated above, the Z has more in common mechanically, and the AE has more in common isually and insofar as import interests go.

actually the more you look at the s12 and more you learn about it you would find out that there are suspension mods for that car.

I was checking the z31 suspension and it is the SAME as our cars.
so if you want coilovers front and shock and springs back
z31 poly urethane bushings
sway bars(do exist from addco)
solid rear mount from z31
rims and tires and this car will handle like a champ

Ha! No, it's as much about looks as it is mechanicals, and in either case as I stated above, the Z has more in common mechanically, and the AE has more in common isually and insofar as import interests go.

not sure if many of you know that the ca and the vg share some designs.. both the ca18 and vg share the same combustion chamber and piston design... and we all know how stout the vg is, probably one of the top 3 strongest nissan blocks.... make me wonder just what they did to the ca18 then

actually the more you look at the s12 and more you learn about it you would find out that there are suspension mods for that car.
I was checking the z31 suspension and it is the SAME as our cars.
so if you want coilovers front and shock and springs back
z31 poly urethane bushings
sway bars(do exist from addco)
solid rear mount from z31
rims and tires and this car will handle like a champ
This has been known for quite some time. There aren't any coilovers for the Z31, however, you can use Z31 rear shocks, even though they're just a tad longer when uncompressed. The solid rear mount for the Z31 does not work on the S12 either. You are correct about the swaybars and Z31 poly bushings.

There are coilovers for the Z31, I've been told, but I forget who. I will query my Z-car list.

And Euroboy, the fronts on an S12 are just 280ZX. SO there's aftermarket suspension there too. The latest news is we can get lowering springs and knob-adjustable shocks/struts on all four corners (Suspension Techniques and Tokico Illuminas).