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CA20ET VFAQ reward

Started by Dan0myte · around Apr 2005 · 42postsvBulletin 2004–05

This thread was saved without dates. "Around Apr 2005" is estimated from neighbouring threads.

Dan0mytedate not saved · #1

Club-S12 is in desperate need of a VFAQ about the process and modifcations necessary to complete a CA20ET conversion. If you are in the process of making a CA20ET, or have already completed your CA20ET, please help out by taking about a half-hour of your time and write out step-by-step what you did to complete the conversion. Remember, it has to be very simply explained in such a way that anyone out there can attempt it. Pictures are also required.

The first person to complete a CA20ET VFAQ and submit it to me will get their choice of free Club-S12 decals, a box of everything needed to add cruise control to your S12, or a Le Bra for the front end of the car (seen here http://www.club-s12.org/Dan/S12_V6/2002/kingspark2.jpg), and of course, shipped to them for free.

So anybody interested, grab a digital camera and pull up a chair infront of your keyboard and start typing.

Arrodate not saved · #2

I still think Marvin should try this (kicks Marvin in the shins).

Radracer_Sdate not saved · #3

Yeah then I lose my pacesetters. Also still trying to make the truck smog legal. Plus lack of knowledge of the subject. I thought someone had already done this.

Alex Frostdate not saved · #4

Yah I think Yellow already did a write up... I'll see if I can find it...oh wait it might be on the old board...:|

Arrodate not saved · #5

Marvin: Oh boo hoo. Stick the turbo on. Stop whining. And go fast ;)

yeah Yellow did on the old board I think, Dan any luck with the old board?

Dan0mytedate not saved · #6

yeah Yellow did on the old board I think, Dan any luck with the old board?No, stupid thing. I can't find my email from my service provider for the password to the MySQL database editor. That would be the best way of getting a backup of the db. And even if I did find a program that exported the posts to text files, I can't remember the access username and password to access the database file. It's just bad however I look at it. I still have some options available to me though, we'll see...

But honestly, from what I remember, the post Yellow made about the CA20ET was less than informative. He mentioned the basics of what he did, but it would need a lot more detail for it to really be considered a VFAQ.

bartc_jdate not saved · #7

Marvin: Oh boo hoo. Stick the turbo on. Stop whining. And go fast ;)

?

oh and change to a manual tranny at the same time

Radracer_Sdate not saved · #8

yeesshhh. Like I don't have enough to do as is. Maybe next year. yeah trans too.

I thought something happened to yellow's car because of that or so I read.

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #9

ahh ha! what a dayto have off from both work and school. Ill do a COMPLETE writeup for MY CA20ET conversion and try to address almost all problems that you might run into. When its finished, ill post it here. So just wait.

Dan0mytedate not saved · #10

Beautiful. 8-)

Nemisisdate not saved · #11

I may be forced to do a "swap" to a CA20ET. Due to my recent problems with my timing belt, I found out that the rotating assembly spins freely apart from the cam now- but the belt is still on. Now I think some valves may have been bent in the process along with some piston chipping. Last time I checked, Jasper Engines sells both CA18ET and CA20E crate engines. The 1.8 is about $2500, but the 2.0 is $2000. So I may need to purchase the 2.0L to save money, then later do a turbo conversion on it. Last I read to do the swap, all you need is the turbo manifold, turbo, wiring harness, and MAF. I already got 3 of those (my turbo is seized and the replacement is on hold due to my situation). So I think I have one of the more ideal situations... Unfortunately.

Alex Frostdate not saved · #12

I may be forced to do a "swap" to a CA20ET. Due to my recent problems with my timing belt, I found out that the rotating assembly spins freely apart from the cam now- but the belt is still on. Now I think some valves may have been bent in the process along with some piston chipping. Last time I checked, Jasper Engines sells both CA18ET and CA20E crate engines. The 1.8 is about $2500, but the 2.0 is $2000. So I may need to purchase the 2.0L to save money, then later do a turbo conversion on it. Last I read to do the swap, all you need is the turbo manifold, turbo, wiring harness, and MAF. I already got 3 of those (my turbo is seized and the replacement is on hold due to my situation). So I think I have one of the more ideal situations... Unfortunately.
If you decide to go with the CA20 make sure to use the model with the manual lifters (black top) 84-86.5...that way you can change cams...8)

Nemisisdate not saved · #13

I have yet to install my timing belt and see if anything happened. But yea, manual lifters. I would probably also swap valve covers, just in case you are deaf and can't hear the blow off;)

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #14

valve covers do nothing to swap them. I swapped mine for 2 reasons. 1) turbo logo and 2) the hole faced towards where the air filter and MAF was for re-circ.

Nemisisdate not saved · #15

I know.... The turbo logo is why I would swap them. Sometimes you need to really think about what I typed. I will try to make it easier next time. I am beginning to doubt I need he swap. I just read in the Chilton's manual thet these ARE NOT interfereance engines. WTF??!?!?! I was told it was by my ex-manager who looked it up on the computer right in front of me.

Alex Frostdate not saved · #16

I know.... The turbo logo is why I would swap them. Sometimes you need to really think about what I typed. I will try to make it easier next time. I am beginning to doubt I need he swap. I just read in the Chilton's manual thet these ARE NOT interfereance engines. WTF??!?!?! I was told it was by my ex-manager who looked it up on the computer right in front of me.
Not interference :wtf: I have never heard that before for our cars...this is something that I am most definately going to look into...

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #17

I would probably also swap valve covers, just in case you are deaf and can't hear the blow off

Sounds wierd to me, but maybe its just me ;) I dont think these are interferance engines either.

gilbydate not saved · #18

even if it is an interferance engine, if you tighten up the valvetrain you wouln't have to worry about it as much. Right?

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #19

in the new buildup of my car, im going to switch to stiffer valve springs and new valves. Along with a CLEAN head. I did some things wrong on the ca20et build, but this time im going bigger and better. Im also working on getting a 240sx for a buildup. If anyone knows of one for sale for under $1K running, I will pay for it.

The heads are good. They need to be cleaned before they go back on though. This time I will be going to removing all the EGR and emissions things for it. Going to try to make a strong bottom and top end with a different head gasket (copper this time :) ). The only un sorted issue i am going to have is with fuel and tuning the fuel. Maybe a RRFPR (rising rate fuel pressure regulator) would work wonders on these cars? Anyone ever try one of them with variable turning for boosts. Like 2psi, 5psi, 7psi, and 11psi springs all inside. Its nuts. Ill try to find one.

Joel07date not saved · #20

If anyone knows of one for sale for under $1K running, I will pay for it.

Good luck on that one... ;) But I'll keep my eyes open for ya since you're not too too far away.

As far as the tuning, you couldn't get yours tuned in with a SAFC and adjustable regulator? Are you running stock injectors or what? I've got a nice set of 450cc DSM injectors I'll sell ya... :evillaug:

sidewaysdate not saved · #21

yellow i know where a clean body notchback is with a blown motor for like $500 or so

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #22

well, if you can get it for next to nothing, i will take it. It needs to be decent in the suspension/body/interior, but maybe just a bad blown motor. The cheaper the better as I now have a $500/mo appt payment. Thanks man.

sidewaysdate not saved · #23

i'll call the guy this weekend and see what's up with it. i may be about to run snap some pics too if you want. the car is about an hour away but i got there all the time! only thing would be getting it back to atlanta. i have a decent ka motor i think we could slap in it if you were serious on getting it

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #24

im very serious if you can make me an offer. i would be looking at purchasing the KA and the shell. I could rent a car trailer and toe the car if you can. Please snap some pics if you can. THanks man.

Im almost done writing up that CA20ET writeup too.

sidewaysdate not saved · #25

i talked to the guy that had "my" ka motor and his mom made him get rid of it (i got it when we pulled it out of his 240 and never picked it up) but it may be mondayish before i can get you some pics/info on the 240. i wish i would have known you wanted one about 2 months ago as a local towguy/junkyard sent 7 of them off for scrap. but i'll keep my eyes open for a cheap ka. there are also some guys in a few towns over that have a mess or sr20det long blocks.... you may be able to pick one of those up!

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #26

Thanks man. I need that 240 + an engine that is a direct swap, i.e. no mods. KA motor would be perfect. I know i could get a cheap used one somewhere....

YankeeDrifterdate not saved · #27

Any news on the CA20ET VFAQ?

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #28

Wow. Im back for alittle and hope that the s12 will make it through the year so that I can make it a full street race car. I have plans to run a t03/04 with high boost for the engine. Should make out for some sweet CA20ET power. But for all of you who want to do a CA20ET conversion, i have some words of advice and some words of caution whne attempting this....conversion more than a swap. Many of you have come a LONG way since we joined the forums and are learning more and more about these cars everyday. I would first like to start by congratulating everyone who has done swaps, conversions, upgrades, and just overall s12 maintnence. I see these cars as having ALOT of potential to beat out s13's because of weight and handling. Although most of us have had a hard time finding upgrades for these rare cars, we have made due with what we have and also created some custom things in the meantime. So here for you now is MY conversion from a notchback ca20e to the only notchback turbo ca20et in the US. P.s. Ill add pics later, but its pretty detailed for right now.

I started the project my summer before college and all through college's first year. I had the help of my best friend Tj, the guidance and trusting of my father, and blessed with almost all the tools and hand cleaner i could ever need. With all other upgrades aside, i will explain what is needed for the engine in each aspect. Some things might differ, but I will try to adress EVERYTHING needed.

Electrical:
This for many is the worst part about building cars. Its hard to understand if you dont have previous knowledge about electronics. I for one had my dad, an engineer, but still ended up figuring out most by myself. I started with (2) cars. A 1985 CA20E notchback with good paint, a shot suspension, only 122K origional babied miles on the engine, and a smokers interior all for $1000 US dollars. This was my first car, so it was reasonable and clean and ran good.. The other car was my parts car I picked up from South Carolina. It was $800 for a 1985 hatchback with a blown t25 turbo, shot suspension, and an engine that at the time was leaking oil from around the rings. It also had 189K miles on it. Upon building the ca20et once before in "Project Dumbass" I used the non-turbo wiring harness to try to fuel the car. Bad idea. For the CA20ET wiring project you are going to need these things.
1) CA18ET ECU
2) CA18ET EFI Wiring harness (ECU-->Injectors)
3) CA18ET Main wiring harness (CoilPacks-->Rest of car)
4) CA18ET Coil packs
5) CA18ET Distributor without the vacuum advance
6) CA18ET O2 sensor (Bosch actually works good)

Out of those 6 things, I had none of them. Because I started with a non-turbo car. If you were to get your hands on the shell of a ca18et car with the turbo wiring in the car, you would be set. For everyone, the notchbacks will not be turbo in the US or canada. So look for hatchbacks.
With anyone wanting to do a CA20ET into a hatchback, you will need to do the following depending on options in the car. You will have to strip the plugs for the taillights, you lose the light in the trunk, change out voice boxes in the rear of the car. Wire in the security box under the passanger seat, take off all the dash and re-wire everything . This was the WORST part of the swap. If you all remember the pics of behind my dashboard. Wire the wiring harness into the engine bay and all the way to the coil packs. Pretty B*tchy huh? I hear that the newer cars like 86+ have the ca18et coil packs that look like little blocks instead of the tootsie rolls. They also have the dizzy without vacuum advances, but i cant assure of this. So with everything wired up we can move onto the engine specs.

Engine:
This is the most important part. The stock CA20E engine sucks. Flat out sucks. It was built with "matchstick" rods, thinner and more flexible rings, and a weak bottom end. I purchased the complete engine kit from www,importperformancepart.net with the upgraded options of the TOGA main and rod bearings and the TOGA high flow oil pump. I think these options were a good addition to the car. Starting from the bottom up I will tell you what I used and why I chose that over other options.
1) CA18ET oil pan - yes, you need somewhere for the oil to return to, why not just use the stock ca18et one, its a direct swap. A no brainer.
2) CA18ET oil pressure sender - yes, you have to get oil TO the turbo somehow.
3) CA20E block - mine had only 124K miles on it and the walls of the cylinder were in perfect condition.
4) TOGA main bearings - all i have to say about these is that when they say 25% more flow, they mean it. I even did some testing with a micrometer and data sheets. They dont lie. I got a 24.67% increase flow amount when i calculated it, so they just round to 25%. These bearings are awsome, and for like $30 they arent a very costly upgrade.
5) CA20E crankshaft - again, it looked good and stayed with the ca20e block setup.
6) TOGA oil pump - another good pump that has some GOOD size oil sender holes. Another not so pricy upgrade. The only problem was getting the dipstick out of the old one and getting the crank sprocket off.
7) Pauter 1000hp forged 1off CA20E rods - cost me $742, but worth it in the end. Beefy as hell. The LAST part that will break in my engine will be that.
8.) Cast pistons with lower compression + new rings - they lowerd the compression a little to allow for higher boost. Im not talking ALOT of c/r, just a little, plus they were new!
9) Copper jacketed head gasket - copper is good b/c it squishes under pressure. Making a nice seal. This was nice.
10) CA20E head with CA20E cam and a small port job done - again, it looked better and had less ware then the ca18et head I had.
11) new timing tensioner and belt - duh
12) CA20E intake manifold - personal prefrence for the piping.

This is not that much, most of what I needed came in the engine kit from that website. It was all just a matter of putting it together. next is the air system.

Air System:
Well with all forced induction you need to pipe things different. I used a starion front mount intercooler with the thing modded to accept 2" endtanks instead of the 1.7/8" I also made 2" intercooler piping all the way from the turbo to the intake manifold. I ran a crushed DSM 1G blow off valve that was good to like 22 or so PSI. T25G turbocharger from a s13. Spools fast and boosts hard. 3500rpm in 5th gear will still pull you into your seat. I have one for sale for $250+shippin'. if they want it. Im going bigger and even better. I used the ca18et exhaust manifold. Used a t25 3" downpipe to a 2.5" exhaust with no cat and a duel tip.

As you can see, it took me a while to write this because skool :) has been taking over all my time. I will try to update this with anything I think of as we go. As for now, here is a start. Thanks.
Yellow (O=O/ S-12 \O=O)

Dan0mytedate not saved · #29

Good stuff. The only thing it's missing now is pictures to illustrate what you're talking about.

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #30

I need a place to host some pictures. If anyone can gimme access, I can just mail them a pack of pictures or something I need to host them for the thing.

Alex Frostdate not saved · #31

I need a place to host some pictures. If anyone can gimme access, I can just mail them a pack of pictures or something I need to host them for the thing.
I can host them for you on my photobucket account...

Dan0mytedate not saved · #32

Just email them to me at [email removed]

I'll host the whole VFAQ here on the Club-S12 site.

YankeeDrifterdate not saved · #33

Cardomain!
Nice write-up, but it's making me nervous about doing mine. Mine's an 87. Which would be better, a 20 build-up, or a 18 swap?

Alex Frostdate not saved · #34

Cardomain!
Nice write-up, but it's making me nervous about doing mine. Mine's an 87. Which would be better, a 20 build-up, or a 18 swap?
It depends on how creative you want to be...;)

Euroboydate not saved · #35

well have it from me too

THESE ENGINES ARE NON INTERFERENCE ENGINES
so just swap the belt and away you go

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #36

there is alot more than just swapping belts. i mean, if you are going to do it right.... :mrgreen:

Radracer_Sdate not saved · #37

gimme ur times, man. i wanna see how fast urs is.

YellowPreludeRdate not saved · #38

dont have any times or anything. just raced alot of things on the road, v8 camaro, v6 vw passat (new version) , and the honda with the nos. i mean, all i built this thing for was to race junk on the street and make them look like a fool.

Dan0mytedate not saved · #39

So nobody has cashed in on this yet ....

200sxkitcardate not saved · #40

I will, eventually, but the house comes first. I'm tired of reattaching the siding.

I believe that the only two things necessary in the end for a light boost setup will be the CA18ET computer, MAF, and (depending on year) the distributor. The computer connector is the same, and everything else is mostly the same. As long as I can repin the ECU connector to work with the turbo computer, the stock harnesses can stay.

All else that is needed is a turbo, of your choice, and Bart's turbo header (if you do not care to use the stock one or cannot locate one closeby). Intercooler, blow off valve, and whatever other accessories will depend on the person's setup.

If you want to boost to 15 psi, more is needed, but for those that can remember, 8 psi is no problem on stock internals, as proved by the first complete uncomplicated swap as performed by reds12t several years ago. He took the car off the road for a body restoration and have not seen him since, I wonder if the car is still in existence.

I have to begin disassembly of my new 87 hatch tomorrow, the car that will recieve all of my planned upgrades, so I will begin shooting pics. I don't anticipate finishing though for at least a year, depending on time and parts constraints. I have most of the required stuff, it is simply a matter of installing it all.

Pas94date not saved · #41

Was there not issues with the head bolts been to big/long or somthing, I seem to rember this on here some where or did i get that wrong ?

Alex Frostdate not saved · #42

Was there not issues with the head bolts been to big/long or somthing, I seem to rember this on here some where or did i get that wrong ?
There shouldn't be head bolt problems switching to the ET head...switching to the DET head might uncover problems like that though...