Silver State Race

Another one of my ideas is the Nevada Silver State Race, or whatever its called. Kinda like the Targa Newfoundland, but its for the people who want to stay in the states. As well as Targa Newfoundland, I want to participate in this race as well. I think either of these events may draw in some attention from aftermarket parts manufacturers. So therefore we may get performance parts from real parts manufacturers, instead of trying to retrofit stuff. Let me know your input.

Yah I am down for this one two...but it may still be a few years, because if I go to Navada I want to go to the Casinos tooo!!!

Hell yeah, I'm always in vegas, I got family up there. We need more details(when, how much, vehicle requirements, etc.) This is what I like to see. Finally, something we can do to try to gain some popularity, we need more exposure before anybody's gonna' think about making shit for us.

Thats true. I dont know where to get the info so feel free to search the web then post your findings. I think we should try to find as many events like these as possible and have the club race in as many as we can. It would be great for representation as well as drawing attention, and just as a club function! Tell as many members as you can to come to the Announcements Forum and read this stuff. I want everyone interested!

Workin on it8-)

we should also get some forums up for different parts of the states so that way we can have meetings localy

Yea, but I dont know anyone here that is anywhere near Milwaukee Wisconsin. Although I have spotted an S12 in good condition near my friends house.

Alright, I searched around and found info. The Silver State Race is a road rally like the Targa Newfoundland. Entry into this one is only $395.00, but it includes a lot of shit. I think it would be a perfect oppurtunity for a club event because it doesn't require everyone to have a full racecar or any special licensing, plus it's covered by ESPN and they say there are a lot of manufacturers there as well. Here's the site let me know what you think.http://www.silverstateclassic.com/flatout.htm

Wow not a big entry fee (like the Targa Newfoundland), and fully covered with sponsors and ESPN. Sounds like this one may be a good starting point.8)

My thoughts exactly. It'll be perfect for our first one.

Well, when does everybody wanna go? This year? If so, my car may not be ready. I am very close to getting a job at a Target store as a truck unloader. its a 10pm to 6am ish job with paid brakes and pays $8.50/hour! thats better than when I as at Goodyear... And now I dont have to deal with customers or their crappy cars! Damn Fords and their stupid air-ride rear suspension... You have to shut it off when you want to lift the car up. Anywho, I still need a new feul tank and sender unit, trans rebuilt, new turbo (t25) plus FMIC, new ignition system (high perf. coils and plugs, thicker wires, distributer), Euo spec cam with lifters, 3" exhaust, adjustible shocks/struts, stiffer spring rate springs, and stiffer sway bar. If I have time and money, I might get the engine rebuilt with a bore job and a port and polish... I need the power, because I will be running extra weight of the interrior. I'm not gonna rip all of it out, just some. Oh, I almost forgot: 16" to 17" lightweight wheels and a LSD if I can find one that I can just swap out the diff and not the whole rear assembly. So Im up for the 2005 running.

if you guys want to do this, be serious about it and build a race car. again, not trying to dash all your hopes and dreams, but the car has to pass spec, and if your power levels are not in the same ballpark as the rest of the cars, you will be a HUGE danger to yourself and the other racers. I wouldn't run someone's street car, I would just put all my chips in and build a race car. If your serious about wanting to design a race car, get the specs of the class you want to build for and then make a post in one of the other forums about it and we'll talk some more. But its going to take a ton of cash. Know that now.

Ummm. You race one at a time in catagories, in basically what is a point A to point B sprint race. Catagories are broken down into speed catagories. And dont start with that "race car" stuff. I trust your knowledge with racing but... Autoweek did this race in the 100mph catagory with a BONE STOCK 2005 GTO. But there are cars there that would be more qualified to be race cars that anything else. There are Vintage racers, Viper probably pushing over 600hp. Exotic imports like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati. Porsche as well. There really is no limit to what you can bring in. To quote the opening web page of this event "It is open to anyone over the age of 18 with a valid driver's license and a roadworthy vehicle." Thats under where it says "ANYONE CAN RUN!" Basically, go to the website and read it. They have qualifing, practice sessions, and even a high performance driving school there for people who want to learn how to race before they go and beat the shit out of their car. http://www.silverstateclassic.com/flatout.htm Pleas visit that Good Doctor. And when you are done, I think you might see this differently.

you are right, i forgot you are talking about silver state and not targa. my bad. last time i talked about silver state I was planning on running a 600+ whp blown lt1 z28. that was then this is now.

it sounds like a great idea. get a few guys together, put a car together and run. looks like it will cost you about $800 to run your first race in entry fees (rounding up of course for estimation's sake) and sounds like a blast. Obviously I would run the car in the ~95 mph class for your first time out. You would have to have a good amount of research going into this if you were serious. Picking the correct gearing for the target mph would really help matters. You will also want to do some research about aerodynamics, as sustained speeds of 100+ mph usually warrant some investigation on the aero side of the fence. If you are interested, I could give you a list of to-do's before the race, but I understand if you are still offended with the other thread. In all honesty, I didn't mean anything against you. I just am trying to explain what I have learned in my time around a track. I'll help you in whatever ways you want, hell I could probably get parts made for you (more on that later, check the coffee shop). Long story short, sounds great. Get some guys together, start planning now, get the investment going, and cross your fingers that you pass tech. One thing you can do now is READ up as much as you can about the tech requirements, etc, etc. Then you build the car and we start testing it. After you have run some tests, you have decieded the distance you want to run then you can start to figure out exactly what times you will need to run for specific legs (thats where a good navigator and a stopwatch come in handy big time). Anyway, I could talk your ear off about it, its just a matter of how much you guys want to hear. Silver state could be a good chance to get a car shown with the URL on it and try to spread the word a bit (perhaps get some sponsership but don't count on much outside money)

http://www.silverstateclassic.com/rules-1-index.htm

Well, first off: I am not offended about the other thread on the Targa race. You just opened my eyes because I didnt understand it that well. Secondly, I think your help is greatly desired for this event. Third, again this will be a club function (I believe) in which whoever wants to drive can drive, we wont put just one car together because then we would have a dispute over ownership and who gets to drive and navagate... So having said that, If you want to participate start getting your car ready now. Starting with all repairs. Including drivetrain, fuel and exterrior repairs. Since it takes a relatively advanced person to build a roll cage (and nobody really makes one) I think that can be omitted for now... But in future races I think it would be a mandatory thing for out cars (just for our club). Because my "plan" is to go as, like, a team we would get attention if a whole bunch of S12s are lined up at the pre-race car show. Yes, you heard correct. Car show:) I think for starters about 3 or more of our cars would be cool. And we would always stick together to draw the most attention. Cuz there is also a parade from Las Vegas to the starting line.

Also: I downloaded a PDF of the offical rules and regulations. We would race in the "Touring" catagory. That is speed between 95mph and 110mph. And you can have an ordinary class D liscense. It isnt until the class where you can go about 180mph where you need a racing liscense/ endorsements.

I would strongly reccomend that you download and save a copy of the rules if you want to race.

Good Doctor... Can we count you in to participate? I'd really like to meet you.

Im down with this concept. I need a exact date so I can have my silvia ready for that date. Im dying to get some pics of my car on this website. Give it a week this car is a ****in one of a kind.

For some odd reason they dont list the event dates on the website. I think it is held in May and September. Not sure though. And it is like the firs Sunday in the month. It is really a 4 day event though. Also do what I did; print off a copy of the rules and regs. The Good Doctor is going to help us with anything since he is an experienced racer and competition car builder. I guess we actually have to join the organization to find out more specific details. Its only $25 to join for one year. But its like $300 something to participate in the race. I've stated before that I won't be in until the 2005 competitions. I need to get my car completely ready.

alrighty, i read my way through the rules (its actually not a bad read, anyone who is serious about the race NEEDS to review the notes for themselves) and here are my thoughts on a good path for someone wanting to get their car ready for the SSC race. I will assume we are talking CA18ET but obviously, everything can be easily adjusted for any motor platform. That being said, here are my thoughts:

The race itself is a pretty great format. I haven't looked into a SSC race in a few years, so I had honestly forgotten exactly what it is. Here is the basics. The organizers close down two highways for the race and you are allowed to run the course "open". The goal of the race is to be closest to your target speed. One would think this is easy but the roads that SSC is run on are not exactly straight. Thus, accurate timing and proper road notes are crutical to placing high in your class. I will ignore this for the time being and just concentrate on getting a car ready for the race.

For the first year, I would suggest anyone to run the touring class, and probably the 95mph class so they can get the format of the race down and familiarize themselves with their car at such high speeds. Remeber, to average 95, you will need to travel probably in the 110 range to equalize the time lost in the corners. This is why a good timer will be CRITICAL to a successful run. Timing in accordance with the road notes will be a key to a high placing. Having previously recorded split times at each road event (turn, bend, kink, etc) so you can tell your driver to speed up, slow down, etc, etc. Success in this race is without a doubt a team effort.

As far as the car goes, the first thing that comes to mind is tires. The car will need atleast U rated tires, but I would suggest to get the best tires you can afford. After you build the car, spend the rest of you budget on tires. Any car in the world will benifit from better tires (if it is possible). Also, when purchasing tires I would buy 5. Hopefully you will have a spare full-size rim but if not, just bring the tire with you in a chase car to the event incase of a blow-out. Again, the best tires possible should be used. The widest tire you can fit without any issues (and applicable to your rim) should also be used ON ALL 4 CORNERS. Any tire questions, please post up. While we are talking tires, the wheels to be used should be as light as possible, that goes without saying.

After tires, the next thing in my mind is safety equipment. Personally, I would never run a sustained ~100 in any car without atleast a 5-point harness. That is just me. I would want a roll-bar with a harness bar to feel safe running my car in the race.
In addition, a helmet is required for both the driver and navigator, the specific requirements are in the rules sheet. A good helmet is always a must.
If the budget allows, a 2-way radio system between the driver and the navigator should be investigated. Current radios can be had for cheap, and simple mic can be integrated into the helmet. I would suggest the key button to be on the steering wheel for the driver to allow him to keep both hands on the wheel while talking to the navigator.
Other safety equipment to be invested in would be a firesuit (if desired, not required) and some driving gloves of some kind. You will also want some sort of hydration system for the driver in the car. The event is in nevada, and inside a helmet the temperature will sky rocket, without even taking your raised heartrate into account.
As the rules state, a fire-extinguisher is also required within arm's distance from the driver. It would be up to you guys where you would want to put the fire extinguisher. Personally, I would remove the center console and put the fire extinguisher next to the handbrake.

the next thing that I would consider when building a car would be just "freshing" the entire car. Running a car in a road race enviroment will bring out EVERY weak point of a car. you will need all new fluids; oil, coolant, brake fluid, power steering fluid, clutch hydrolic fluid, tranny oil, rear end oil. All new belts. I would replace every vaccum line in the car (removing emissions if possible). Replace spark plug wires, new plugs. The car will need NEW brake pads. Hopefully some race-ready pads. New rotors would be nice, but slotted/drilled rotors are optional. I usually don't stress if the rotor is solid as long as they are vented (more on this later). New shocks/struts, and perhaps new springs (stiffer if possible) should be installed as well. The shocks I would consider a must, the springs if they are sagging. street pads really do not like the stresses of the road race. As many bushings as possible to be replaced. Hopefully, all will be replaced as new, but I understand that is not always possible. As you can see, racing can add up when you start to consider how to prepare your car to run, and we have not even started to talk about how to IMPROVE the car for the race. That being said, lets see what we can add to the car to get it ready for the race...

next priority would be keeping the car running at the race. I would want to keep the clutch fan on the car, a mechanical fan rarely fails, and when it does fail the clutch fails close so the fan is just always spinning. Cooling the car is priority number 1. This is just not keeping the radiator cool. this extends to everything in the car. I would install an oil cooler, in addition to running the larger style oil filter. Make sure the cooler has a nice source of cold air as well. A FMIC would be nice, to avoid heatsoak, but a smaller FMIC would help avoid starving the radiator of cooler air. One place of cooling that is needed that is often overlooked is brake cooling. Obviously in a open road race such as SSC it is less of an issue, but proper brake ducting goes a long way to helping the integrity of your rotors. If you can get some air to your brakes, do it.

first performance upgrades I would make would be suspension. It comes back to the safety issue. Like I said earlier, new shocks / springs would be first (after tires that is). A strut tower bar would also be a nice piece. I can't think of anything else at this point, but I am starting to lose my mind.

next, lets take a look at engine performance issues. Obviously, the faster the car, the harder you can take the corners and the easier you can take it on the straights. A larger turbo would obviously be a blessing, as would larger exhaust, etc, etc. I would think a cam is also very important. I would get the CA18ET offering from COLT before the euro cam. Also, remeber if you upgrade the cam to throw in a set of the larger 88 CA20E springs (I believe this is correct, dan?). Intake (IC), Turbo, Exhaust, Cam, headwork is the order I would go as far as performance goes. The race itself is about a well rounded car, so any motor improvements you can take are great.

as far as the night before the race you will have your work cut out for you. bring a jack and stands with you in a chase car to the race. you should do the following things before running the car the next day:
- new oil & filter, perhaps a higher weight, to adapt for the higher temps
- new brake fluid, flush and BLEED system fully
- new clutch fluid, flush and BLEED system
- check coolant, if needed top off
- nut and bolt entire suspension (all 4 corners)
- tighten all lug nuts to 100 ft/lbs USING TORQUE WENCH

I know there is a ton I am missing, I will add another post when I think of the rest, but give me a day to think about it some more and write some more. in all honesty, I am just too burned out right now to outline it all. I know I am missing alot in this post, so guys please don't rip it apart, but as you can see, racing = some $$

I think that is a great outline so far. I think it would be great to do research on exactly what parts should be used, where to get them and how much they cose. Example: the part # of a KYB adjusible shock that would fit and from what catalogue/ website. I think that would help with the replacement of bushings and stuff. I would like to also replace my fuel lines with S/S breided hose, along with brake lines and clutch lines. That could be a good idea too. I think I might want you to build me more of a cage than a bar. Cuz of the "safety" issue. because we can run up to 124mph maximum. But I think we should stay below that so we don't get disqualified! Anyway. I know you WILL be making most of my parts. So I think that posting any and all info on aftermarket parts (suspension and other) is greatly needed!

Also to anybody with parts connections. If you have a means to get parts cheaper this would greatly help the people racing this year. By the looks of it so far, this is going to be the only way to keep costs down a bit (short of cutting corners), and we are here to help each other. If I come accross anything, I will let you guys know. Good luck you guys, there is a lot of work a head of you. 8)

Well, as far as performance goes, Good Doctor will fabricate alot of stuff. Although Bart already makes a 3" exhaust and a strut tower brace, you can get one from him or Good Doctor. I plan to get a Full S/S exhaust (including downpipe for T25), all intake plumbing with for a FMIC. If he makes a turbo header, I'll get that. And if Docto listend to me and makes an intake manifole in the CA20E style, I take one of those. (On the CA20E style intake, you dont need to route the intake plumbing around on top of the cylinder head.) Thats about it, besides a roll cage.

This is great. Thanks Good Doctor for your advice/outline. This is perfect timing because I just barely threw my car up on jack stands this weekend for my initial teardown. :devil:

Teardown? You are gonna gut it? cooooooool. Gutting is our friend!

Hells yeah I'm gonna gut it. The interior is too ugly to stay in that car. I'm gonna tear the whole thing apart though. I have a lot of time and a decent amount of money so F#@$ it why not?

Yea. The most I'm gonna do is ditch all the seats and replace the driver's and passenger's seat with racing seats. Then ripping the interrior out of the hatch part. That should be it for me.

guys, I'll throw some more outline of "to-do's" later today after I get back from work (lunch break right now). In response to your comments, I will see what I can do about fabricating parts. The header will cost a good amount of money, alot more than the $400 that a member quoted on the old site, so if you guys are looking for a header I will just direct you to him. Not sure where the post is, but just search turbo header on the old board and go sifting through the results. The guy quoted $400 to do a full stainless header. You can't beat that price.

As far as the intake manifold goes, a unit like that usually costs around $500 if it is a production piece. If I did one custom it would be probably $600 or so. I would also need a spare CA20E manifold, as I was going to make it a log design as well (just like the CA20E).

With regards to other ideas, I'll keep you guys posted. I hope to have some more definiative prices by the end of the week, but keep in mind all my fabrication gear is back at school, so no production will start until august.

Anyway, I don't want to divert the attention of this thread on the race itself and not the parts I will be making. I'll respond to both threads (the fab and this thread) if not tonight then tomorrow.

Hmm ... Vegas, cars, racing ... maybe I can get sent there as "work." And if a picture of the Club S12 car happened to reach the pages of the magazine ... well.

Jeff is definitely covering all the bases here, but I'm just going to throw in my 2¢. In my opinion a tow vehicle is a necessity.

Running a turbo car balls to the walls in Nevada heat ... I can't stress how important cooling is going to be.

Someone needs to do the aero research too. The 200 is actually very aerodynamic, but could do with some redesign. I'm planning to make an aluminum chin spoiler for mine that's going to incorporate some duct work for brake cooling, IC flow and intake as well. If it works out, I'll either build a second one for the race car, or at least give a really detailed DIY.

I don't think miy car will be ready til next spring, is anyone else interested that might be ready this year?

No, I wont be ready till next year as well. But whoever wants to go, feel free to go, but just keep in mind Good Doctor's outline!

If anyone is going this year then keep me posted I think I'm going to be up in Vegas this fall anyway. It would be a blast to check out while I'm up there.

ok guys, let me give this another shot, i will warn you though, my brain is pretty fried today. (not to mention i should be fixing an oil drain plug on the el camino...but thats another story)

one of the keys to running good at SSC will be aero. Like Matt (Mr.200) said, no-one knows how the aero package of the S12 is at sustained speeds of ~100 for any length of time. I agree with him 100% that a chin spoiler would be a nice addition to the current aero though. The factory rear spoiler will help, obviously with no downforce, but it will "spoil" (hence the name) any eddy current that will try to lift the rear end. Aero will be one of those issues that we will have to discuss as the speeds get higher and some guys do some more testing at speed (avoiding cops of course)

a few other items i could think of were stainless steel brake lines, clutch line, and perhaps an oil temp gauge. It will really be key to keep the car cool.

I honestly am not sure what else i have covered or not covered, so at this point I will just give some thoughts on the entire race as a whole and just be open to anything you guys shoot my way.

In all honesty, performance is a very low priority going into the race. I would suggest racing only the 95 mph class, and the majority of doing well in the race is consistancy. If you can get the car through the turns fast, you will make up for lack of power in the straights. Obviously it will be easier to go from 75 mph exit speed from a turn than 50 mph. Alot of the race is driver as well. Infact 95% of the time the thing that should be improved about a particular car is what is behind its wheel. I would suggest just getting to know your car, get to know its braking distances, get to know the gearing by heart, so you will properly downshift, work on your heel-toe, learn to feel the car, know when it will break loose in a corner. get used to the speed. obviously the best way (and most legal) is to enroll yourself in some racing events. autocross is good, but the speeds are low, and there is not much shifting involved. get involved with open track events, just search the net for scca clubs and / or open track clubs at your local track. take a driving school or two.

other than that, get some nice tires, prepare the car well and you'll be fine. remeber, you probably will be pretty slow your first year at SCC. STUDY THE TRACK BEFORE YOU DRIVE IT. Go over the notes with your navigator. Make sure both of you know the track well. You should be able to tell the navigator the turns before he calls them out. Make sure you have worked out how the turn call will go. Also, work out a timing system with the navigator so he can tell you if you are +/- to the goal time at certain splits.

One last item on the day of the race, make sure your navigator and yourself have PLENTY OF WATER before the race. You will sweat horribly in your car during the running, and you need the water for your health.

I'm sure I'll think of more, so I'll just keep adding to the list on this thread. In a week I'll be back wrenching in the pits at Mid-OH with a team, so I'm sure getting back in the paddock will give me more racing ideas to pass onto you guys.

I think to help with cooling is that anyone with the turbo hood should cut out the front of the buldge to make it a functional scoop. I heard somewhere around here that it lowers engine temps greatly at high speeds. but on the topic of areo, Doctor said something about a chin spoiler. Well as some of you may know, there are none. There is one molded on the Erebuni kit I think, but as you know that kit is discontinued and the molds were destroyed. So If anyone finds something that fits or can make something that would bolt in (Cough~Good Doctor~cough), that would be great. And maybe a rear spoiler add-on to raise the angle to greate down force at high speed. Maybe only an additional 10 degree increase? little more? Good Doctor I think we should discuss this too.