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How To: 5lug Conversion, And Home Made Coilovers

Started by Johnny_boi · Mar 22, 2010 · 47postsSMF 2010–26

Johnny_boiMar 22, 2010, 7:30 am · #1

parts (5 lug)

hubs
rotor
brake bracket (see the difference below)
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left 300zx right 200sx - its for the larger rotor

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tools you'll need

floor jack and stands
breaker bar 1/2in
30mm socket
17mm socket & wrench
12mm socket & wrench
10mm line wrench
long flat head screw driver
impact if u have it(i have one but my air compressor isn't strong enough)
axle puller or hammer if ur ghetto like me lol

so there's two way two do it if u have the right tools(impact or no impact)

with a impact
1. jack the car up then place stands under car
2. remove wheels
3. remove brake caliper.
           there's a brake line that has to be removed to do this and two 17mm bolts on the back side holding the caliper on. then on the bottom is a bracket for the e-brake cable it a 12mm and a 17mm. then it should come off
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4. remove the shock from the bottom mount with a 17mm

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5. remove 17mm bolt and nut. this will gain u access to the end of the cv axle, which has to be removed to get to the 30mm bolt
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6. now remove the 6 12mm bolts. this is tricky cuz the hub is going to spin freely apply the e brake. this only works once, because when u get to the other side the rear brake will be removed, so u can put the tire back on and lower it until it touches the ground. you'll only be able to do two at a time  cuz u need to jack it back up and rotate the axle to remove all six bolts
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7. take ur inpact and hit the 30mm hub nut doing this it is best to have the wheel on and it on the ground.

8. with the tire removed use the puller to the hub or a hummer from the inside and beat the living crap out of it. its best to threaded the nut on a couple of times so you don't mess the threads up

no inpact lol aka more work

do steps 1 threw 5.

6. remove sway bar end 12mm

7. there's a inside brake (rubber to metal)line on the inside of the swing arm remove the rubber line from the metal or hard line. 10mm

8. remove spring

9. two bolt should be the last thing holding the swing arm on. remove the two 17mm.

10. now as u remove the swing arm, use the screw driver and pop the axle out
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11. place the swing arm in the wheel with the lugs studs in the hole, then remove the 6 axles bolts
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12. then take the swing arm some where they have a inpact

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front 5 lug

tools

jack and jack stands
12,17, 19mm 22mm socket's and wrench's
pickle fork(tie-rod separator)
hammer

parts

z31 or s12 se parts* (the easy way to go)

z31 strut w/ hubs
z31 brakes (s12 brakes are to small)
z31 strut bottom bracket

1. remove the wheel

2. remove brake line

3. remove the two 17mm bolts at the bottom of the strut

4.remove the 3 17mm bolts at the top of the strut

5.you can loosen the sway bar(14mm) and tension rod 17mm or kick it hella hard until it comes off lol

6. with the strut removed, there should be a bracket on the lower control arm (lca) remove the tie rod from it with a pickle fork and hammer.( or if your at the yard and u aren't using the tie rod, beat the hell out of it lol)

 7. now place the pickle fork between the ball joint and the bracket, pound it in there nice and good. with the pickle fork in place hit the top of the ball joint should come off easy.

now if your just do this for the 5 lug conv.

swapping over the s12 spring, strut insert and top mount.

tools

spring compressor
hammer and chisel

1. remove spring.

2. to get the insert out use the hammer and chisel, then pound on the nut at the top of the strut tube. sometimes you can just use the hammer.

3. switch everything over

coil-overs on stock s12 and z31 5 lug conv.(front only for now)

tools

grinder
welder

parts

coil-over springs    qa1 $37.00 ea (summit) or what ever you choice

threaded sleeve                
       summit $50 each or buy a ebay coil over kit for a 240sx for $50

sw20 mr2 front strut insert $33 ebay ur better one if you choice

If you want, you can use
S13 upper pillow mount $89.00
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you should start wit a bare strut tube.

1. grind the weld off the strut preach. hit it with a hammer until you see a hair line crack start. grind where is needed until u can get the preach off.

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2. put in the insert to find out how much to cut off to shorten it. remember that u  need the treaded part at the top. i eyeballed mine

3. put the inert back in to recheck. place the tube over the insert, spot weld it in place. DO NOT WELD THE WHOLE THING WITH THE INSERT IN THERE. take out the insert. then finish welding it  
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4.weld the treaded part on in the same way

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5. you need to weld a 2in i.d something like a washer or short piece of tubing .5in long or shorter

6. slided the treaded sleeve over it with jam nut. place in the insert, screw in nut

7. with using the mr2 sw20 insert. you have to bore out the top mount center hole with a step up drill bit so the top shaft will fit.

8. there's a nut that holds the strut in place, you will have to grind it until it is round so the threaded sleeve can slide over it

9. Put it all together.
Should look like this

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for z31 5 lug. The Step are the same as above but…..
           the tube on the strut is 2.25 outside diameter (o.d) so you need the
           s12 strut tube cut about 6 to 8 in's off the s12 tube, you need the threaded
           part at the top. The I.D on the threaded sleeve is 2in
   
   
My ride height
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s13 conv.

coil over kit
you can buy the cheaper ebay kit for a 240s($40.00-50.00)which comes with the coil springs, sleeve, or
go threw summit and buy the sleeve and jam nut(50.00 ea) and then buy a spring of your choice

s13 strut

sw20 strut (mr2 years 91 and up) $50.00

2in id washer

upper coil spring seat

s13 upper pillow mount $89.00
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2.5in helper spring $22.00 each

if you don't go the ebay way

you can get the ground control kit $400

or

go to summit and get the threaded sleeve with jam nut 50.00

Qa1 coil spring
($37.00 and up each) you can get the length wanted. 6in to 12in. spring rate 100 to 600 lbs

tools:
welder
grinder with flip disc & cut off disc
a cut off saw if you have it

first take the s13 strut and remove the strut components. then grind the lower spring seat at the weld with the flap disc until you can see a hair line crack and do this all the way around. then stomp on the seat until it comes off and it will look like this

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then you have to cut the threaded part of the strut tube off with a the grinder & cut off disc, for the best cut use a cut off saw.to extent the tube, then get a 2in OD piece of exhaust tubing from a parts store. cut it to length and weld it to the strut tube. then weld the threaded part you cut off earlier on the end of the strut tube like this
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now you need to slide the 2in id washer onto the tube then the threaded sleeve & mark with a sharpie where the washer needs to be. tack it up, test fit and weld it.
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there's a nut that holds the strut in place, you will have to grind it until it is round so the threaded sleeve can slide over it

paint it. install the springs and our done

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Things that don't work

S13/s14 strut Assembly's, the spring is to big and WILL rub
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Limiter straps don't work…………..but maybe for a race car

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link's

helper spring
http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/cs100-2.5.htm

QA1 springs
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Ty...gs/?keyword=qa1

BoostedVGMar 22, 2010, 9:08 pm · #2

Nice work!

Johnny_boiMar 22, 2010, 10:05 pm · #3

thanks

JordanMar 22, 2010, 10:55 pm · #4

Thanks for the detailed pictures. Good write up!

taktics702Mar 23, 2010, 12:09 am · #5

Thanks for a how to with pics!

a how to without pics is about useless.

Johnny_boiMar 23, 2010, 3:19 am · #6

there some good info in there that i didnt even no like the base of the z31 strut where the 2 bolts are are wider i wish i would have got a pic to show you guys

Ju_S12_TurboMar 23, 2010, 8:18 am · #7

Sweet Jesus My man, Fucking great write up. Someone sticky this quick!

Johnny_boiMar 23, 2010, 7:10 pm · #8
Ju_S12_TurboSweet Jesus My man, Fucking great write up. Someone sticky this quick!


maybe, im still working on the rear, i'll add it when i get it done
Justin BannerMar 25, 2010, 12:35 am · #9

Do I have to cut the strut tube shorter? I'd like to keep the stock height and also be able to raise it (I'm "European" Rallycrossing my S12 in the Rally America events in NJ starting in August, so adjusting from .5" below stock to a 1.5" raise would be useful).

BoostedVGMar 27, 2010, 1:45 pm · #10
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Where did you get this aluminum piece between the spring and the strut plate and what is it called? Also what year MR2 are the strut inserts from?
a tin pan alleyMar 27, 2010, 2:01 pm · #11

shouldn't any first gen mr2 struts work? i've read about this here before.

JonBMar 27, 2010, 2:07 pm · #12

If those are S12 rear arms, your going to have to redrill your 10" 4-bolt rear rotors for 5-bolt. The bearing section in the Z31 rear arm sits out 10mm farther. You have to use the Z31 rear arms to use the Z31 11" vented rotors out back.
I just set my old Z31 rotor on top of my S12 rotor and painted it; this left the 5-bolt pattern sprayed on the 4-bolt rotor, then it was easy to center-punch and drill.
If I remember correctly the Z31 splined section opposite the hub is a little different than the S12 piece. How the 10mm difference is made up so that the S12 and the Z31 use a common CV/axle.

I think the 2.25 Z31 strut tubes are off of the '88 turbo? I'm using '87-'88 Z31 non-turbo strut tubes on mine; I don't recall having to section the tube anywhere. I just welded the ProShock(2"ID) threaded spring pirch on, threw in the MR2 strut with a ProShock upper pirch and a T-3 camber plate and I was on the road. The Z31 caliper is in the front now, So (four) new Z31 brake hoses were needed in the front.

Johnny_boiMar 27, 2010, 4:29 pm · #13
JonBIf those are S12 rear arms, your going to have to redrill your 10" 4-bolt rear rotors for 5-bolt. The bearing section in the Z31 rear arm sits out 10mm farther. You have to use the Z31 rear arms to use the Z31 11" vented rotors out back.
I just set my old Z31 rotor on top of my S12 rotor and painted it; this left the 5-bolt pattern sprayed on the 4-bolt rotor, then it was easy to center-punch and drill.
If I remember correctly the Z31 splined section opposite the hub is a little different than the S12 piece. How the 10mm difference is made up so that the S12 and the Z31 use a common CV/axle.
I think the 2.25 Z31 strut tubes are off of the '88 turbo? I'm using '87-'88 Z31 non-turbo strut tubes on mine; I don't recall having to section the tube anywhere. I just welded the ProShock(2"ID) threaded spring pirch on, threw in the MR2 strut with a ProShock upper pirch and a T-3 camber plate and I was on the road. The Z31 caliper is in the front now, So (four) new Z31 brake hoses were needed in the front.


to tell you the truth, i havent a clue what you mean, but maybe i can try to anwser you. i im currantly driving the car with no problems. i used 84 z31 evertything for my swap. now if ur saying that the brake rotor is to big to use with  the stock s12 calpier you are right, but thats why you have to use the z31 calpier  mounting bracket(if thats what its called). i dont no if i anwser it. also the hub are the same for the 84 z31 as shown above
JonBMar 27, 2010, 6:34 pm · #14
Johnny_boito tell you the truth, i havent a clue what you mean, but maybe i can try to anwser you. i im currantly driving the car with no problems. i used 84 z31 evertything for my swap. now if ur saying that the brake rotor is to big to use with  the stock s12 calpier you are right, but thats why you have to use the z31 calpier  mounting bracket(if thats what its called). i dont no if i anwser it. also the hub are the same for the 84 z31 as shown above

I thought the '84 to '86 Z31s where 4-bolts. The '87 to '88s where 5-bolts. The '88 Turbos have a bunch of different stuff in them vs the other Z31s(dual piston front calipers, larger 2.25 strut tubes, and a very very sought after clutch LSD R200, etc....)

But as I look at those rear rotors you have there, they're not vented like the '87 Z31 rotors I got my parts from.

Do the earlier Z31 turbos have 5-bolts and non vented rotors? If that be the case, it looks like I could just switch to that rotor and caliper mount and have an 11" non-vented rotor really easily.

I didn't swap to the Z31 5-bolt vented rotor trailing arm because I had already weld my stock S12 ones for spherical bearings and boxed them. I intend to do up a set of Z31s one day though.
Ju_S12_TurboMar 27, 2010, 9:58 pm · #15

84-86 had 5 lug for sure on the turbos at least

Johnny_boiMar 28, 2010, 12:08 am · #16
JonBI thought the '84 to '86 Z31s where 4-bolts. The '87 to '88s where 5-bolts. The '88 Turbos have a bunch of different stuff in them vs the other Z31s(dual piston front calipers, larger 2.25 strut tubes, and a very very sought after clutch LSD R200, etc....)

But as I look at those rear rotors you have there, they're not vented like the '87 Z31 rotors I got my parts from.

Do the earlier Z31 turbos have 5-bolts and non vented rotors? If that be the case, it looks like I could just switch to that rotor and caliper mount and have an 11" non-vented rotor really easily.

I didn't swap to the Z31 5-bolt vented rotor trailing arm because I had already weld my stock S12 ones for spherical bearings and boxed them. I intend to do up a set of Z31s one day though.


84-86 do have the 4 lugs and 5 lugs but only for the turbos
sam31183Mar 28, 2010, 1:50 am · #17
a tin pan alley shouldn't any first gen mr2 struts work? i've read about this here before.

2nd gen mr2 shocks in the front...like 91, and mustang foxbody shocks in the back....business in the front, party in the back!
DeezusMar 28, 2010, 4:03 pm · #18

hows the ride with these?

JonBMar 28, 2010, 4:24 pm · #19
Deezushows the ride with these?

With the adjustable shocks, and a wider variety of shock, plus a common coil over size spring, where you can pick any spring rate you want, your ride can be however you want it.

softer-----stockride++++++hard+++++++++++++++++I chipped my tooth hitting that tar strip++Who really needs suspension.
DeezusMar 28, 2010, 5:28 pm · #20

i know that, what i mean is, is there any kind of vibration or wobble at high speeds

JonBMar 28, 2010, 6:02 pm · #21

I'd say no. I solid-bushinged my car so my ride is harsh and there's alot of feedback/road noise. But my steering wheel doesn't wobble or anything. It has in the past, but just from loosing skick-on wheel weights.

It's pretty much still done by the Nissan engineers. The Z31 is pretty much the same as the S12, it just had bigger brakes(it's heavier). Any new noise/harshness will be from the spring plate, shock, and spring choices you make; that's not nissan engineering.

The S13 front end allows for a greater choice of after market parts. It's similar in weight to the 200, so it's breaks are good, and there's alot of parts interchange with bigger nissan vehicals and later "S"s with performance 5-bolts and bigger breaks. It seems to be the more popular swap.

My Z31 front struts stretched my wheel base a bit if I'm not mistaken.

Johnny_boiMar 28, 2010, 7:05 pm · #22

i took it on the freeway last night rode good but it can be better

Johnny_boiMay 8, 2010, 9:15 pm · #23

the follow up on the conversion/ feedback

well been riding on these for 2000+ miles with little to on problems had to roll the fenders, they were cuttin my tires.

im running qa1 10in 350lbs in the rear with no adj. prech. soon to be tho.

camber plates are a real good idea, plan on getin some, as soon i have the green back to do it

without camber plates and top hat needle bearings there will be spring binding here and there

8SixS12Aug 17, 2010, 5:50 pm · #24

Question: On the s13 setup, couldn't you just cut off enough of the spring perch to accomidate a slip on coilover sleeve?  I would think that would be alot simpler and wouldn't require any welding right?  Or am I just not taking into account the s13 strut length?

DeezusAug 17, 2010, 10:19 pm · #25

im guessing you would have to weld it, having a slip on perch like that and not having it welded tight would just seem dangerous.

8SixS12Aug 18, 2010, 7:59 pm · #26

That's how all coilver sleeves are.  Not welded.  They just slip over the strut and the weight of the vehicle and spring tension hold them in place when the strut assembly is put back together.  Let me re-read that section.  I may end up answering my own question.

8SixS12Aug 18, 2010, 8:44 pm · #27

Nope, still don't see the need to cut the s13 strut.  Any ideas?

EightySix200SXAug 18, 2010, 8:56 pm · #28

U need to cut the s13 strut because the sw20 inserts are shorter.

I'm running similar setup only with 280zx sleves and using stock s12 tubes 40mm needs to be sectioned out. U can weld the sleve to the tube if u have steel sleves but most are aluminum that's where the perch comes into play. I was gonna do helper springs but it isnt needed I don't have that much travel. They would be nice. I also have a needle bearing integrated into. He upper hat so tube assy dosent bind when turning. They sell lower thrust bearing also that go underneath the spring itself

sam31183Aug 18, 2010, 9:14 pm · #29

you could also just make a spacer then put it in the bottom of the tube that the strut could sit on...but i mean...it matters how short a spring your running...i would also imagine the car will sit lower in the front with the strut tubes sectioned. I am running the cm spring/agx combo and i just made a spacer inside the strut tube and drilled out my factory top hats so the larger sw20 strut tube top would be able to fit through the hole...

EightySix200SXAug 18, 2010, 9:25 pm · #30

the spacer defeats the purpouse to get lower. i can slam the shit outta my car (not that i would) but as low as i am not i can still drop pretty far and have maintain a good amount of shock travel. but everone has theyre own method. its cool too cuz we all have something different to bring to the table.

johnnyboi- hey so ur running 350lb all the way around? cool setup 200sxkitcar has a similar setup with sectioned s13 tubes on s13 suspension componments. its pretty legit (no thread jack intended)

sterling setup s13 tubes
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/EightySix200SX/suspension/IMG_1268.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/EightySix200SX/suspension/IMG_1262.jpg)

my setup s12 tubes:
left: sw20 shock w/ shortend tube///right: s12 tube (non shortend for comaprison)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/EightySix200SX/suspension/Clipboard01.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/EightySix200SX/suspension/IMAG0311.jpg)

8SixS12Aug 18, 2010, 9:55 pm · #31

Damn I just saw this after doing another search.  It seems that the s13 strut is alot shorter in stock trim hence the reason for the extention. Thanks Eighty Six.

So EightySix, I know Sterling shortened the tube on the left. Did you just add the washer perch to the stock tube on the right in the second pic with no cutting?

EightySix200SXAug 18, 2010, 10:15 pm · #32

the one in the second pic; the right one was before cutting. the left one was after.

sam31183Aug 19, 2010, 12:57 am · #33

yah...like...i dont think my ride height is too high with the spacer....i mean, i can barely fit a jack underneath my car now as it is...you must need ramps to get the front of your car up now right?

8SixS12Aug 19, 2010, 4:04 am · #34

What's the spring rate on the Canucks anyway?

vegasS12Aug 19, 2010, 9:52 pm · #35

so for the rear z31 5 lug conv. we can only use solid rotors rite?
or can we use vented rotors?

EightySix200SXAug 19, 2010, 10:35 pm · #36
8SixS12What's the spring rate on the Canucks anyway?

325lb/in front
275lb/in rear.

if you go the section/sleeve method run 350's or use that as a baseline all around you wont regret it. i may do 425's depending we'll see imma try adjusting the dampening some more and see what its like but its the perfect medium between weekend track and daily. they perform well. a friend of mine is running 430lb fronts with 350lb rear but its a vg swapped notchback it dosent even feel like there is a vg30e under the hood.

pm me if u need any help with the setup im running if thats the route u decide to go.

vegasS12so for the rear z31 5 lug conv. we can only use solid rotors rite?
or can we use vented rotors?

see mod_mastaz master suspension thread for that info. he is running vented rotors but you will need the z31 arms also if im not mistaken
8SixS12Aug 20, 2010, 2:38 pm · #37

Thanks, I will hit you up when I get started EightySix.

s-chassis_onlyNov 19, 2010, 7:22 pm · #38

hey eighty six how did you cut the s12 strut and do you have part numbers for the setup ur running and do you have to modify the mounts in the back to mont the top

MaxpowNov 19, 2010, 7:45 pm · #39

Edit the title already jeeze.

Much <3 I just wish mods could like help a mother fucker out. I hates me some spelling errors for searchin'

Moderator Edit
Done and done!
-J

alexc8402Nov 24, 2010, 8:41 pm · #40

Ok so I have a set of the megan coilovers that I've installed on my car and like the many others that have them on their cars I am unhappy with the rear ride hight.
I've noticed there is a member that has modified the megan setup with a shorter rear spring and I'm considering that as an option.
I also own a set of the the blue coil springs and I've been considering ordering the adjustable perches from pit stop usa but I can't seem to find a post that has the correct part numbers. So my question is what do you guys think would be the best option?

JayNov 24, 2010, 10:09 pm · #41

shorter rear spring. Easier and best way. Just take measurements of the spring inner diameter for your megan perch. and go from there using them

alexc8402Nov 26, 2010, 8:59 pm · #42

thanks for the help JAy
for anyone that is wondering I'm copying iliRandyili's "fix"
here is the link http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=29754.0
If I find that the spring rate is too soft I'll let you guys know

ArroNov 27, 2010, 1:46 am · #43

What are you planning to do with your car? Too stiff is bad for traction, causes bump steer. So unless you're drifting, don't go extreme.

alexc8402Nov 27, 2010, 2:02 am · #44

well I'm just looking for a really fun daily driver. I just haven't driven the car enough to determine how it drives (under steer/ over steer)
from what I remember these cars are intended to have a some what stiffer spring rate in the rear, I could be completely full of shit with that statement but thats just what I thought  remembered reading. If you have got some incite I'd appreciate to hear it.

ArroNov 27, 2010, 2:15 am · #45

Drive it first with the current Megan (BC) setup. Don't slam it until you get to know your car a bit more. Then you'll have some idea what spring rate you want.

Actually, the spring rate thing isn't true. It tends to be stiffer in the front depending on the model (VG SE model cars, for instance, due to the heavier engine). If anything, the rear squatting a bit in the back is part of the design intention from the engineers. Not probably as much as old OEM original parts would do, mind you. Anyways, the semitrailing system was designed to articulate a bit under certain conditions to give you more negative camber (for handling). Because people like to lower these cars by more than an inch or two, it drastically changes the zero point geometry (the point the camber sits at while the car is at rest).

This is also why lots of people want stiffer springs, so they can squat down, but stay there, and not bump into the inside of the wheel well.

Is that better for performance? It's debatable. Again, depends on what you want to do with your car. Unfortunately for the S12, the IRS design for our cars leaves us with out an option for "best suited for all conditions while looking low".

Sad but true.

EightySix200SXNov 27, 2010, 3:17 am · #46

350lb-450lb seem to be very nice. 350lb rears are comforting and eliminate squat on hard launches. i may be selling my 350's for something a bit stiffer in the 400's

ArroNov 27, 2010, 3:30 am · #47

There is your answer^^^ Not too stiff, but eliminates the squat on launches.