Installing Experimental Engineering Headers

Started by Wolf Dilworth · Nov 28, 2009 · 67postsSMF 2010–26

Wolf DilworthNov 28, 2009, 11:02 pm · #1

OK There has been lots of discussion about headers, the thread I wanted to post to has been locked, so...

   Here is the deal, I have a Datsun 510 wagon [ http://www.cardomain.com/id/wingnut510 ] that I had planned on putting a VG-30E in, so I bought the Experimental Engineering (EE) headers for the swap. Now I am putting a VG-30DE in "Franken Wagen" instead. I thought about selling the headers to a fellow "Dimer" that was going to do the swap, but then I thought why not put them on "Wedgie". I did some rough measurements and I think it is do-able. I am posting the photos that I have taken in order to help any others that want to give this a go.

   For starters, this will take a few weeks so hang in there, I am making better progress toward getting "Wedgie II" on the road (see above link). I finished the Y collector from the headers down to the Cat, so far. Need more materials and components like the Cat and muffler.

   First images will be of the stock manifolds compared to the EE headers. These show rough tape measurements and should be self explanatory. Thanx go to Carter and Dave at Experimental Engineering for providing me the images. The last few images are of my Y collector weld-up, 2.5 inch Mandrel bent tubing (Columbia River Mandrel Bending Co.) MIG welded.

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The linkage for the rack and pinion/steering column is going to be close but should fit, We will see when it comes time to stuff this bad boy under the bonnet. Stay tuned...

I am pretty certain there will be some massaging of the transmission tunnel to allow the header unions clearance, but this should be very slight.
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Take note above: If you are going to use EE headers, you will have to juggle two of the studs for this side. Piece of cake.

Raw header just getting set-up. Yes the entire engine/trany are sitting on top of an old office chair caster. <G>

First few welds are in place. Yes they are ugly but I will fix them later. Note to the wise: get in a good comfortable position and don't use a cheapo Flip-Down welding bucket, get the good electronic type, which I now have.
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Same stage just from the top. Note: the tranny mount went on the Jenny Craig plan. Just too much stupid weight doing nobody any good.

Passenger side was cake.

I figured I should support the collector here at the transmission. It looks real low but the lowest point is directly under the transmission and the Y intersection is about an inch higher off the ground.
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After grinding down several of the uglier welds and slapping some heavy duty Mongo welds on top of everything, there should not be any cracking to speak of, just need to fire it up and temper everything now.

demonic s12Nov 28, 2009, 11:15 pm · #2

im very interested in this

XanoNov 29, 2009, 12:51 am · #3

Wow man, just wow. That looks so fucking hot.

Definitely something I'm going to keep in mind for tax time.

ArroNov 29, 2009, 1:36 am · #4

Damn that is sick as hell!

This'll get the SE guys here drooling I'm sure! Hell, I'm drooling, and I don't even own a VG30E-powered car!

DraconisNov 29, 2009, 2:14 am · #5

I only have one question and it can only really be answered when it's in the car, but the pipe that crosses over under the trans, how low is it and will it be the lowest point in the car? As in if you bottom out, will that hit first or the frame or anything else on the car. From what I picture in my head, should be ok. With that setup, I would almost be tempted to run dual exhaust or have it connect further back but besides that question, it is obviously much better and a vast improvement.

Wolf DilworthNov 29, 2009, 2:23 am · #6

ArroDamn that is sick as hell!

This'll get the SE guys here drooling I'm sure! Hell, I'm drooling, and I don't even own a VG30E-powered car!

Thanx all.

I appreciate the boost, this project is going much slower than I would like, but it has allowed me the time to go through several items.

I tore down the trany and rebuilt it with fresh bearings and cones. I had already planned on punching the motor out a full millimeter although that does not make much diff.. I port matched and polished the intake side and left the exhaust side alone, cept-n-fer the headers of course.

I am hoping for around 15-20 extra and want to re-map the ECU sometime soon, I am machining a set of cam sprockets so I can degree the cams.

Another project I started work on, is fixed headlights to replace the "flippers". I don't particularly care for the "Lazy Eye" look and the aerodynamicist in me just hates all the induced drag from those gawd-awful pop-ups. I am using some Cibie 4.5 X 6.0 H4's and am working out some plugs to mold the buckets out of carbon fiber with Plexiglass or Lexan covers over the outside. This is still in it's infancy and I will post something up in the appropriate section soon.

Peace, Wolf

Wolf DilworthNov 29, 2009, 2:35 am · #7

DraconisI only have one question and it can only really be answered when it's in the car, but the pipe that crosses over under the trans, how low is it and will it be the lowest point in the car? As in if you bottom out, will that hit first or the frame or anything else on the car. From what I picture in my head, should be ok. With that setup, I would almost be tempted to run dual exhaust or have it connect further back but besides that question, it is obviously much better and a vast improvement.

Right now it looks like it will be fine, this set-up is a half inch closer than the butcher-job of an exhaust system in Wedgie I right now, which will hit where it crosses under if I roll off a speed bump too fast, however, the front struts are shot and I have rebuilt a set of struts and put in 20 wt oil for Wedgie II, solid.

Peace, Wolf

MaxpowNov 29, 2009, 10:35 am · #8

Nice work. I hope to have a solid exhaust system set up for my Vg soon this gives me some more ideas. Thanks!

Wolf DilworthNov 29, 2009, 12:16 pm · #9

Just a little FYI, the headers are the Cerma-Chrome option which does add a hefty chunk to the bill. Experimental Engineering [www.vg30.com] also sells a slick lookin 6 quart oil pan, it is designed for the Datsun 510 community but it will fit just fine on an S-12. The pan taint cheap but if you have the bank then it could be worth looking at. There is a core charge for the oil pan, if you have a spare layin' around then you will save yourself that one.

Peace, Wolf

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Ah, the good ol'days... Sniff sniff.

bluke1Nov 29, 2009, 12:57 pm · #10

looks great and i cant wait to see how it works out. you know that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!!!

PraizewoodNov 29, 2009, 1:15 pm · #11

Wolf DilworthAnother project I started work on, is fixed headlights to replace the "flippers". I don't particularly care for the "Lazy Eye" look and the aerodynamicist in me just hates all the induced drag from those gawd-awful pop-ups. I am using some Cibie 4.5 X 6.0 H4's and am working out some plugs to mold the buckets out of carbon fiber with Plexiglass or Lexan covers over the outside.

Wolf DilworthNov 29, 2009, 7:14 pm · #12

Praizewood

Close but without all the rice-boy silliness. I will have to use the smaller (SE) corner marker lights and shorten the SE grill, similar to what most have done to add those early corner markers. The housing will look much better than the cheesed-up fab job, that team did on their car. As an added bonus the few mods needed on the car will be reverse-able, cept-n-fer the grill work. I want this to be reverse-able and a simple bolt-in affair with simple hand tools such as a power drill, saw (to cut the grill), wrenches and screw driver.

I will cover all this on another post, in the proper locale. Apologies, Arro.

Peace, Wolf

firefoxNov 29, 2009, 7:34 pm · #13

those headers look like 350z headers

ive posted up before on how vq40 headers will fit and 350z ones are the almost the same
the angles are right to use on our shit, but someone should try it out to confirm

silvias121987Dec 23, 2009, 9:18 am · #14

How much and how do I buy????????

Wolf DilworthDec 23, 2009, 5:56 pm · #15

silvias121987How much and how do I buy????????

www.vg30.com has what I am using. Enter the site and click on "510 V6 Conversions" and then click on "VG30 Parts & Service". The Headers are $350.00 and Cermachrome coating will add another $200.00.

a tin pan alleyDec 23, 2009, 5:59 pm · #16

have you progressed any further and is there an update in the works?

Jsvob03Dec 23, 2009, 7:11 pm · #17

nice work on the headers!!

on the headlights (since u brought em up) i've always thought the headlights from a 1994 olds cutlass supreme would look sweet on a 200sx. square, small, perfect. something i always wanted to toy with, but never really got to it.

another question, where are you locating the 02 sensor/bung?

LyniumDec 23, 2009, 8:10 pm · #18

That wagon is awesome!

Until I seen your pickies I didnt realize how huge that oil pan was!

You should check out my thread on the dry sumps to see what Im talking about lol.. (In offtopic or general.. cant member which.. lol)

Maybe something to consider if you're hard up for space...

Wolf DilworthDec 24, 2009, 2:51 am · #19

a tin pan alleyhave you progressed any further and is there an update in the works?

Yes I have been busy with the holiday stuff. I have not stuffed the engine yet although if the weather warms up this week end... Stand by.

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The o2 sensor on the left is the larger variety. I welded in a 17mm as well, just not in this pic.

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Here is the top, still no EGR line yet. That bracket standing up in the middle is a support that ties into the split-line on the tranny.

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Better view of the 22mm bung, the 17mm will go just behind this one.

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This is just after I sprayed the high temp coating, still soft. You can see the 17mm bung now, the EGR tap is hiding behind the near tube. little brackets are for heat shield material, that will clamp on to protect the tranny.

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Here is the finished product - Passenger View

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Drivers View

Peace, Wolf

IggyEGuanaDec 24, 2009, 3:43 am · #20

u called the god-like silvia super silhouette "rice-boy silliness"

but i like 510s so u are forgiven lol

that cross-under pipe gonna get smashed sorry. otherwise a damn nice exhaust so far. try v-bands instead of those bulky exhaust connectors

GL

Wolf DilworthDec 24, 2009, 2:19 pm · #21

IggyEGuana
that cross-under pipe gonna get smashed sorry. otherwise a damn nice exhaust so far. try v-bands instead of those bulky exhaust connectors

GL

Actually this system sits just as low as the Stock with the heat shields in place. Plus it is slightly further back than stock so when I roll off of speed bumps, I should be good.

As for the couplers... They came with the headers and I do not want to destroy those beauties (headers). :o)

Check out the finished product, shows every flaw no matter how small.

Wolf DilworthDec 24, 2009, 2:32 pm · #22

IggyEGuanau called the god-like silvia super silhouette "rice-boy silliness"
GL

Call me Olds Cool, but that car looks like the cars that the Japanese create that look like Pokemon cars, you know exaggerated angular features and silly pipes sticking up way in the air. I am not sayin it won't go like stink (although with a high penalty from drag), just not for me.

Peace, Wolf

Wolf DilworthDec 27, 2009, 9:40 pm · #23

Just wanted to let everyone know that I am still working on this install. I just did not get any help this weekend, the weather was good, but my help was busy machining some parts for a client. So I welded some goodies for another job. Dollars always come first. <G>

Car is all set to get raised and the engine sits on a custom fixture to roll up under the front end.

Peace, Wolf

Wolf DilworthJan 3, 2010, 8:28 pm · #24

OK Gang, gather round!

I stuffed my VG today! The headers fit fucking great, they look like they were made for this car. I am just so jazzed. I wish it were not so fucking cold outside. Yeah it hit a high of 50 today and after dark the temp is falling like a rock, already 45 degrees... <G>

Anyway here are the images with captions.
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Already jacked the nose up and rolled the engine into position then dropped car back to level. When you support the car from the rear cradle the CG is just right to pick up the front end by hand and kick the motor under <G>

Proof, notice the jack stands are free.

Here is a view from the naked side... I salvaged the alternator bracket off an F-14 "Tomcat" Jet engine.
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...And here is the other side with the ugly paint job.

Just making sure there is room. Hey that is one sweet looking horn bracket. <G>

OK jump ahead to the engine in place. Dig that crazy oil filter.

This was too easy.

Look Ma, no hands!

And here is the real goods. Passenger Side looking down.
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Here is a better view, that little brass tube is the oil pressure fitting. I wanted to move the oil switch up away from the header and the extra port (plugged) will allow me to pre-oil before start-up.

Driver's side, tons of clearance for the steering linkage.

Here is a better view, no problems with the fire wall on either side of engine.
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Driver's side lower end, good clearance here too.

Passenger side lower end... Man have I got a serious case of wood.

And here is the clearance looking across frame rails at level. I am going to cut and weld the tube aft of the Y and bring it back up a little.

By comparison, here is my daily driver now. It is just as low and the new Y is a little further aft from this one. The problem with speed bumps should be resolved. Just in case, I am making a couple of striker plates out of 1/4" plate that will mount on the frame rails to protect the pipe and provide a strong jack point too.

seishukuJan 3, 2010, 8:56 pm · #25

Wow, very nice man! Talk about perfect fit.

a tin pan alleyJan 3, 2010, 9:35 pm · #26

holy shit

ArroJan 4, 2010, 4:18 am · #27

^+1, man that is awesome

I guess we can call it PROOF now, eh? Thank you!

MaxpowJan 4, 2010, 5:32 am · #28

Fucking awesome! Glad this worked out so cleanly!

firefoxJan 4, 2010, 8:59 am · #29

IM IMPRESSED....
looks clean.. if i were going n/a i would buy a set of these

arro you should put this thread into the "how to" vg section once everyone has their word in.

what kind of pre oiler system are you going with?

ArroJan 4, 2010, 12:25 pm · #30

good point.

demonic s12Jan 4, 2010, 1:18 pm · #31

do want O.O

GrantJan 4, 2010, 4:54 pm · #32

+1

Well, bloody hell, it works!

You realize that we with VGs will now be wanting to do this. Badly.

Damn man, I'm glad to see it working out great. You have to get some video or sound clips of what it sounds like once you get her running.

Off topic, My brother lives around the Round Rock area so if I'm ever in the area, I might just have to drive by and check her out.

nismologistJan 4, 2010, 5:41 pm · #33

its a crying shame that californians arent allowed these. california fails.

JordanJan 4, 2010, 5:58 pm · #34

Thanks for taking the time to make sure these headers work. They look great!

IggyEGuanaJan 4, 2010, 7:45 pm · #35

looks good. my exhaust is just as low below the rails and sits about an inch and a half above the ground. needless to say it hits everything so I dont recommend going low

a tin pan alleyJan 4, 2010, 8:06 pm · #36

nismologistits a crying shame that californians arent allowed these. california fails.

why not? this has nothing to do with emission control

Wolf DilworthJan 4, 2010, 9:13 pm · #37

nismologistits a crying shame that californians arent allowed these. california fails.

I have to agree with "Tin Pan" as these have all the required Smog stuff.

If you go back a page or so you can see where I added the EGR tube and I have both Oxygen sensor bungs (large bung came with header and I added the smaller one just aft of there.)

I did not provide for the air-injection line that is OE spec for the '87s, my '88 does not have this line and I am going to play ignorant. :o)

Peace, Wolf

a tin pan alleyJan 4, 2010, 9:18 pm · #38

Wolf DilworthI have to agree with "Tin Pan" as these have all the required Smog stuff.

If you go back a page or so you can see where I added the EGR tube and I have both Oxygen sensor bungs (large bung came with header and I added the smaller one just aft of there.)

I did not provide for the air-injection line that is OE spec for the '87s, my '88 does not have this line and I am going to play ignorant. :o)

Peace, Wolf

see, i don't know what that's about. i have an '87 and a friend of mine recently purchased an '88. i have the AIV stuff and he doesn't. strange.

ArroJan 4, 2010, 9:20 pm · #39

From a legal standpoint, it doesn't matter if it has all the connections. Without the C.A.R.B. exception number, the thing is illegal and can fail your smog inspection.

BUT...

In most cases, if it's hooked up right, and the inspector isn't an asshole, then you're probably ok.

RedneckJan 4, 2010, 9:21 pm · #40

Wow Wolf looks really good man. I will definitely be keeping an eye on your thread .

IggyEGuanaJan 4, 2010, 9:22 pm · #41

no C.A.R.B. number? Might not be an issue at some smoggers. Just ur luck though that a smogger will be a dick about it and fail ur visual

Wolf DilworthJan 4, 2010, 9:24 pm · #42

IggyEGuanalooks good. my exhaust is just as low below the rails and sits about an inch and a half above the ground. needless to say it hits everything so I dont recommend going low

As a precaution I am going to weld-up a pair of striker plates, from 1/4 inch plate and mount them on the frame rails to protect my hard work. Then I can go around trashing speed bumps all over town...

Wolf DilworthJan 4, 2010, 9:36 pm · #43

I just want to say thanks for all the props on this install. I am still chompin at the bit to get this done.

However, I have a paying gig that just pushed up their deadline, gotta do some paint and assembly work on a machine that myself and a couple of friends have been building for the porn business. We call it the blaster, it will be used on a bondage site (I think) that you can pay to watch the ladies get drilled. As soon as I can i will post pictures... No not those pictures. Arro might get a little peeved.

MaxpowJan 4, 2010, 10:23 pm · #44

Wolf DilworthI just want to say thanks for all the props on this install. I am still chompin at the bit to get this done.

However, I have a paying gig that just pushed up their deadline, gotta do some paint and assembly work on a machine that myself and a couple of friends have been building for the porn business. We call it the blaster, it will be used on a bondage site (I think) that you can pay to watch the ladies get drilled. As soon as I can i will post pictures... No not those pictures. Arro might get a little peeved.

LOL Wtf!

demonic s12Jan 4, 2010, 10:50 pm · #45

Maxpow

LOL Wtf!

ha!

Wolf DilworthJan 24, 2010, 8:42 pm · #46

UPDATE:

I have been a little busy with several projects and did some more welding on the rest of my exhaust system, it is coming together nicely. I will get some picures tomorrow when it is light out, not to mention warmer. Spose to get down into the thirties tonight. <G>

P.S. Once I have finished delivery on the Blaster I will post images, without the naughty bits of course. I am contractually bound right now.

Peace, Wolf

demonic s12Feb 3, 2010, 3:08 am · #47

i now have a scanner btw, i can upload some sections at a time, as vg stuff is all thats relevant to you anyways.

_andrew

Wolf DilworthFeb 3, 2010, 9:47 pm · #48

Man I dropped the ball there. Let's see, Jan. 24 till Feb. 3 does not a day make. Anyway, here are a couple more pictures to keep y'all going. I just finished the last welds tonight but will wait till the morning to get another run of images.

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Mid and Aft sections, the aft is not finished in these shots.

Just another angle. The flanges are just aft of the rear cradle, the pipe drops under the driver side CV axle. I decided to split the system up into three sections to make R/R easier.

Peace, Wolf

JordanFeb 5, 2010, 4:27 pm · #49

Man, you lucky SOB. How did you get a gig making porn equipment? Talk about a sweet gig.

oh, and your exaust looks good too.

VG33ERGazelle?Feb 5, 2010, 6:09 pm · #50

needs....dose headers.

needsssss demmmmmm