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1987 200sx Project Dd

Started by alfa_1366 · Jul 14, 2009 · 20postsSMF 2010–26

alfa_1366Jul 14, 2009, 6:06 pm · #1

So here's the thing, we have no idea how to build a rally car so this is going to be our test subject for the matter, muahahaha!

I haven't had the car nor have been in this site for long, here's my intro thread: http://club-s12.org/v3/index.php?topic=26963
CA20E engine with R180 diff.

***Delivered mods when I bought the car:
Lowering springs (unknown brand).
KYB struts all around.
Custom headers for the CA20.
Some visual mods (which I don't really care about).

***Mods I have done so far, with pics.
- Since there is very little aftermarket support for this car and even less or none for Rally applications, everything must be custom made/fitted from other cars:

Roll bar from an AE86 Hatchback (we had one already made and it needs very little modification to fit in an s12).
- It will be a complete roll cage soon, and the roll bar still need more reinforcements so you can call this the "Roll Cage Version 0.3":
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Adapted rear strut bar from the front of an AW11 MR2.
- The outer bar holes fit perfectly into the holes where the seat lock thingy used to be, we had to weld and adapt it to mount in the struts:
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Adapted front springs from a Mercedes 300E 1993-ish.
- We had to cut the springs in half and modify a little the upper mount, makes it sit pretty high:
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Adapted rear struts from a Pathfinder 2002-ish (I think).
- Needs a custom mount in the control arm and modify the top to fit in the screw-like mount on the s12:
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Custom adjustable front control arm.
- Since the car is a higher with the harder springs up front it got some positive camber and we made this more like a necessity than a mod to correct the camber up front. (Forgot to take pictures but it looks something like this, only uglier and more reinforced with a 1" bold and nut):
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Custom header-midpipe-resonator-flowmaster short exhaust.
- Only goes to about 3/4 of the car to prevent the bending at the end and have a little better flow to free up every HP we can from the small CA20 engine:
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Custom dashboard switches (This is just me being the electrical geek I am).
- In order from left to right: Starter button, accessory switch, master kill switch (which really equals just turning off the car with the key normally), lights, low beams, high beams and on top is the horn. This is still just made to "see if it works" I'll arrange them better in a more presentable metal plate later. Still needs more switches like the wipers for example.
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***Things/Mods pending:
Find Harder rear springs.
Find Harder front strut cartridges.
Full roll cage.
Fix the power steering.
Fix the e-brake.
And some other misc stuff I can't recall right now.

TEST RUNS:
I think the front springs may be too hard because the front bounces too much, but I still need to find harder front struts and see if that helps, also the car is still on lowering springs on the back so that could also be the cause since the front is way too high in comparison with the rear.
And I soooo need to fix the power steering, my arms hurt like hell after a few test runs on dirt.

AS I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RALLYING AND USING THIS CAR AS A TEST CAR TO LEARN. IF YOU KNOW ABOUT RALLY CARS PLEASE TELL ME WHAT WE ARE DOING WRONG OR WHAT SHOULD BE DONE.

jays86sylviaJul 14, 2009, 6:15 pm · #2

Great ingenuity and info on the rollbar and rear strut brace! Can't wait to see how this rally project turns out!

zastabaJul 14, 2009, 6:39 pm · #3

Looks good! Always fun to see some of the rally stuff's happening on s12's.
XanoJul 14, 2009, 11:25 pm · #4

We've gotten a few people that do rally race/dirt track racing in S12's.

My S12 is awaiting a garage, so I can put my 280z and 300z suspension parts on for a bit of lift, and I've already got A/T tires on it meant for an S10 or similar sized truck.

EV S12Jul 14, 2009, 11:51 pm · #5

great to see your post! My se caught fire a little while back and this will be the end intention of the re-build. I'll be watching your progress. As far as rally goes, what is your local or regional access to trials like? Any race experience?

ArroJul 15, 2009, 12:02 am · #6

You need some knobby-ass tires for some better dirt traction, for one thing.

You need custom springs with a nice soft rate, some custom shocks and strut tube inserts with a nice travel.

EV S12Jul 15, 2009, 12:08 am · #7

...and are you thinking of much of a budget?

ArroJul 15, 2009, 12:10 am · #8

regardless of your budget, the right kind of tires are a must.

EV S12Jul 15, 2009, 12:13 am · #9

certainly, but you can sink 2-4k with no trouble on a set of comp spec gravels. If you're starting at an amateur level, that's a hell of a lot of scratch. Get to know the scene and some of the better funded teams. You'll find good deals out there on second hand tires. Hell, I've heard of some teams giving away tires with around half tread.

IggyEGuanaJul 15, 2009, 4:05 am · #10

needs more V6!

Stock suspension is really good for rally.  no joke.  Only reason for a lift is LT tire fitting or if you plan to jump it lol.

Stock SE V6
- interior
+ dirt tires
+ welded diff
-------------
rally car

You could always buy cheap M+S tires and cut the tread blocks for dirt traction.  pretty labor intensive making the cuts though

alfa_1366Jul 15, 2009, 6:13 am · #11
EV S12...and are you thinking of much of a budget?
Yeah... that's one of the problems, we don't have a big budget nor any sponsors so everything is made as cheap as possible, since we have the tools to fabricate the majority of the stuff, I think we should be OK.

EV S12As far as rally goes, what is your local or regional access to trials like? Any race experience?
The local rally scene was non existent until this year so it's barely starting, we already participated in 2 rally races with a stock AE86. The only open category right now is the "N Class" which is the amateur class that's really just a normal car with a roll cage, but we don't really care about that since we want to experiment and learn with so many things on the car. We can still run in the race out of the category, we just won't score any points.

I have experience on the touge and drifting and the guys I'm working with have lots of experience drifting. So we're new "rally drivers" but not new to the racing scene.

ArroYou need some knobby-ass tires for some better dirt traction, for one thing.

You need custom springs with a nice soft rate, some custom shocks and strut tube inserts with a nice travel.
We have 6 rally tires waiting for us in Las Vegas, I just need to replace the head gasket of my DD Sentra and go get them.

We are definitely considering a lot the travel of the suspension, we adapted the pathfinder rear struts which have the same travel as our stock struts (which is pretty long IMO) because I got them so damn cheap. But we're looking on maybe putting some AE86 ones since they have even more travel.

IggyEGuananeeds more V6!

Stock suspension is really good for rally.  no joke.  Only reason for a lift is LT tire fitting or if you plan to jump it lol.

Stock SE V6
- interior
+ dirt tires
+ welded diff
-------------
rally car

You could always buy cheap M+S tires and cut the tread blocks for dirt traction.  pretty labor intensive making the cuts though
There are A LOT of jumps on the courses over here, and the thing is that we put a spring of the same length in front, only that it's harder and it doesn't go down as much when the car is sitting, BUT here's the thing about rallying that we have learned, when the springs get hot, they soften like hell, so we're looking for springs that even though at first they will feel like a rock, when they get hot (after a mile or two of racing) we want them feel just a bit harder than stock.

And yeah I forgot to put it in the first post but I have a welded diff, I'm considering a lot the R200 conversion because the R180 is so damn small and fragile, mine is already sounding like it's gonna die soon after just 1 drift event and about 400 miles @ 80+ mph.

And hell yeah we're gonna make our own "custom tires" cutting them ourselfs. We're Mexicans damn it! lol.
IggyEGuanaJul 15, 2009, 7:47 am · #12

right on man sounds like u guys are gonna have fun. careful getting air.  I have a welded r180 as well and its been fine so far.  broke a drivers axle at the splines edge in the diff.  drifted it 1 event since and it was fine.  prob just age fatige.

blitzJul 17, 2009, 8:03 pm · #13

go to ground control, and they will make you all kind of springs. or maybe adapted AE86 rally suspensions

ArroJul 17, 2009, 8:07 pm · #14

Since the Z31 was used in amateur rally racing, I bet they can modify one of those spec suspensions to work for the rear. I don't know if anyone rallied S13 chassis.

IggyEGuanaJul 19, 2009, 5:18 am · #15

ooooooh ya aren't the z31 springs longer and harder?  I think I heard something like that long ago on here.  Heavier car so it makes sense.

alfa_1366Jul 20, 2009, 4:48 am · #16
IggyEGuanaooooooh ya aren't the z31 springs longer and harder?  I think I heard something like that long ago on here.  Heavier car so it makes sense.

yeah, I already found 2 z31s in junkyards I'll go in the and check them out, but at first glance the rear ones didn't seem different, it looks like the spring has the same turns and the diameter is the same so I can't see how they can be harder or longer, the front ones should be a different story but I couldn't see them. I'll let you all know, could be a cheap mod for anyone rally racing.
XanoJul 20, 2009, 5:07 am · #17

just to give you tips, i bought 280z 2+2 fronts, and 300zx 2+2 rears.  they ARE, confirmed, longer and stronger.

alfa_1366Jul 21, 2009, 3:47 am · #18
Xanojust to give you tips, i bought 280z 2+2 fronts, and 300zx 2+2 rears.  they ARE, confirmed, longer and stronger.

Thank you so much!

May I ask why not 300zx FRONTS or 280z REARS, are they different?
seishukuJul 21, 2009, 4:17 am · #19

It's because the S12 uses a modified 280z front suspension, but shares the 300zx rear suspension..

XanoJul 21, 2009, 9:39 pm · #20

the spring sizes are confirmed to work for the 200sx for those two models.  280zx fronts are stock bolt in from the 2 seater, 300zx rears lift the car 1" or less in the rear (from the 2 seater Z31's), but are the same size at the ends.

2+2 model was chosen for higher spring rate and more travel than the 2 seater.