Dec 8, 2008, 5:32 pm · #1
looking to swap motors again.new v6 type.vq35 to be exact.but im open to any suggestions on v6 nissan engines.
Browse › Engines ›Other engine swaps
Vq/vg Option Swaps Only
Dec 8, 2008, 11:57 pm · #2
draconis started out with a se and the same idea swaping in nothing less than six cilinders, he ended up with a rb20det, i personaly like the idea of a vq series swap though, just cause that seams to be nissan's new motor, they stick it or variations of it in just about anything, and the aftermarket is seeing this and making lots of new parts for vq engines, although the vq wires would be uncharted teritories for the s12 world
Dec 9, 2008, 12:03 am · #3
Haha, a VQ35 swap. It's way out of your league, nearly out of everyone's league.
Way too much involved in that swap, especially engine management
Dec 9, 2008, 12:20 am · #4
I didnt do the VQ cause that was in like 03 and they were still really expensive at the time. That and I didnt have the contacts I do now to grab what is needed. So in reality, it was more of a financial issue that caused me to go RB first off. I'd still do it in a heart beat though.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:32 am · #5
Just buy a vg30et and have manifolds made for it. then just make your own oil lines. that would give you a lot of cash for mods. you would still be under the budget of a VQ swap.
Dec 9, 2008, 1:46 am · #6
oh im so surprised...more negativity.im not going to let you guys say this and that..i dont care.i can do whatever i put my mind too.this is a tough choice...hardest one yet.ive got the vg30et.the vg30det,the vg30dett,the vq35,and the vg33er,am i missing anything?
Dec 9, 2008, 1:49 am · #7
VG30DE?
Dec 9, 2008, 1:51 am · #8
vh45de
Dec 9, 2008, 3:05 am · #9
asparagus
Haha, a VQ35 swap. It's way out of your league, nearly out of everyone's league.
Way too much involved in that swap, especially engine management
I agree.
s12god
Just buy a vg30et and have manifolds made for it. then just make your own oil lines. that would give you a lot of cash for mods. you would still be under the budget of a VQ swap.
That's easier said than done, and if you pay someone to do it, very very expensive. VG30ET is full of fail potential as an S12 swap project.
VG33E is a GOOD idea IF and only if you already have an SE, because then you already have the crossmember for that engine. If you do not, then it would be better to go with a 4-cylinder option.
However if I had an SE, instead of a VG33E, I would rather remote mount a turbo system like mc did.
Dec 9, 2008, 3:09 am · #10
vg34 with low boost remote mount turbo.
yes, vg34.
Dec 9, 2008, 9:18 am · #11
nismologistoh im so surprised...more negativity.im not going to let you guys say this and that..i dont care.i can do whatever i put my mind too.this is a tough choice...hardest one yet.ive got the vg30et.the vg30det,the vg30dett,the vq35,and the vg33er,am i missing anything?
well i wasen't trying to 'call draconis out' or anything, i just remember him saying in the magazine articals that nothing less than a six will do, and the options mentioned were the same as yours but also included the straight six motors too, rb20det, rb25det, rb26dett, etc. i would think it would be easyer to get on of them to work then the bigger nissan v-sixes, the vg thats in the se is sorta cramped anyway
Dec 9, 2008, 10:15 am · #12
the three five will fit, if someones fit a big vh45,it may not have worked,but clearance wise it was good.what about a inline 2.8 turbo from a 280zx??
Dec 9, 2008, 10:46 am · #13
I have never liked how Nissan designed the engine bay + V6. They are ALWAYS way to cramped, and it seems like you need to drop the motor to do any work on it.
Nismo, I know you hate when people give you recommenations that you don;t like, but for the money, you'd be better off gonig with an RB series motor rather then a VQ/VG series. Have you ever trid to do a timing eblt on a VQ motor while it's still in the car? Good luck with that.
I vote for a RB series motor. Bang for buck, you will be happier with them. Plus you already have the engine managment figured out in aftermarket parts. While the VQ35 would be badass, I think you'll spend more time getting it in/running/tuned then you really expect.
Go with an RB
Dec 9, 2008, 11:25 am · #14
nismologist
the three five will fit, if someones fit a big vh45,it may not have worked,but clearance wise it was good.what about a inline 2.8 turbo from a 280zx??
Just saying "it will fit" doesn't make it true. And even if there's physically enough space, there's a boatload of issues with making mounts work (people always think "oh I can just weld it" but it's nowhere near that simple), not to mention engine management as Henry put it.
The L28ET from a 280ZX turbo was put in an S13 and based on what I saw, I hope it's never put in another S-chassis again. It's tooooo long, and even though they made it fit, it hangs too far past the front wheels, and throws the car's balance off waaaay much, all for what, old tech?
Stick with the VG series engines, If you're talking about going this crazy, for less work you could have done a VG30DETT and YES, that one actually "fits" and has even been done already in an S12 (once, by Aussies).
Dec 9, 2008, 11:44 am · #15
ok.dont tell me what i can and cant do.i garantee a 3.5 will fit inside the bay.never said shit about mounts and i dont care if they work or dont.i will have a shop make the sucker fit.then what will you say???oooh it looks funny.i dont like how it sits.STOP HATIN.like i said THREE OR FOUR TIMES ALREADY... i dont like turbos all that much.maybe a nicely tuned vg30de.good power,reliable,cheap (to an extent)i think i saw one that was supercharged.and the main reason i dont want to turbo my existing engine,is that i cant throw a turbo on an engine with high compression like that.that isnt good no matter how you put it.
Dec 9, 2008, 11:53 am · #16
lol nobody"s hatin'... but anybody can say "I can do it"... but until it's done, it's just talk, and talk is cheap. What's your budget? That's something we see a lot of on the interwebz.... guys with beer money who want to start multi-thousand-dollar projects, and get pissed when people question their commitment to what is usually a very lofty goal.
I can respect your desire to stay NA... my KA24DE, while not a six, has given me a newfound respect for NA engines.
Is there a good, reasonable, *realistic* engine for you, that meets the requirements you seem to want?
Yes. It's your first choice: the VG33E.
Edit: I just deleted one post and kindly decided not to take the matter further; please, everyone, keep it civil, especially in the tech threads.
Dec 9, 2008, 11:54 am · #17
whats wrong with me??dude why does everyone ask that.im not even trying to be rude or anything thats just how i talk.im straight forward and i dont take an inch of shit ever.you guys cant stand the heat,get out of the kitchen.i got money headed my way and im eager to get this all planned.so sorry if yall think im a dick..im not trying to be.i think im going to try the vg30de.maybe the dett,but god that would be a bitch to work on.its going to be a daily,so i want a fairly easy engine to work on.i dont want to turbo the vg30e cuz wouldnt i have to replace the pistons?that wouldnt be fun at all.vg33e is on the table too.god this is a head ache and a half.ive got a bankroll of 5k for now.but im waiting and waiting until something clicks and clicks hard in my head.the 33 is calling though.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:02 pm · #18
im just a sarcastic guy.get used to it.since im saving most of my dough,i will have around 5 k to start.more if needed.i think im going to do the vg33e.did they come without the superchargers?
Dec 9, 2008, 12:10 pm · #19
So much fluff like this thread on here all the time. This forum would be 1000 times better without the useless fantasy threads.
"Nismooligist"
I'll break this into suburban hip-hop speak for you.
Is you want to silence the "haters" I have a suggestion: Don't talk about it, be about it.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:17 pm · #20
Sean1978
So much fluff like this thread on here all the time. This forum would be 1000 times better without the useless fantasy threads.
"Nismooligist"
I'll break this into suburban hip-hop speak for you.
Is you want to silence the "haters" I have a suggestion: Don't talk about it, be about it.
what the fuck is that suppost to mean??you callin me ghetto or something??i appreciate the positive stuff,but i dont need any negativity.thats just ppl trying to bring me down.but waste your time if you feel the need.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:21 pm · #21
Couple of things.
I never saw myself as being 'called out'. So no need to worry there. I already explained my rational for why I did what I did. My car was a SE and I felt like I was doing it unfair if I went to a 4 cylinder. So I was stuck with a 6 cylinder. I looked at the cost and the work involved and chose the RB partly due to that reason. Other reasons was because it hadnt been done yet in the States, was about to be finished in Aus. and it held the RB factor.
The motor mounts, Arro is correct. You dont just weld stuff up. Actually for me, I didnt touch the motor mounts. I made everything else work around the motor mounts. I think everyone forgets that.
As far as engine management. I dont see why it's that hard. That's where you get into the basics of tuning. I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is. Just get a piggy back or standalone. It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:22 pm · #22
dirtymike1 Have you ever trid to do a timing eblt on a VQ motor while it's still in the car? Good luck with that.
timing belt on a vq in or out of the car is impossible. vq uses a timing chain.
ArroJust saying "it will fit" doesn't make it true. And even if there's physically enough space, there's a boatload of issues with making mounts work (people always think "oh I can just weld it" but it's nowhere near that simple), not to mention engine management as Henry put it.
The L28ET from a 280ZX turbo was put in an S13 and based on what I saw, I hope it's never put in another S-chassis again. It's tooooo long, and even though they made it fit, it hangs too far past the front wheels, and throws the car's balance off waaaay much, all for what, old tech?
Stick with the VG series engines, If you're talking about going this crazy, for less work you could have done a VG30DETT and YES, that one actually "fits" and has even been done already in an S12 (once, by Aussies).
l series fits the same as a rb. as far as front to back is concerned. side to side you would have more room.
intake and exhaust on the same side makes it a little tight, but its still much simpler.
nismologistwhats wrong with me??dude why does everyone ask that.im not even trying to be rude or anything thats just how i talk.im straight forward and i dont take an inch of shit ever.you guys cant stand the heat,get out of the kitchen.i got money headed my way and im eager to get this all planned.so sorry if yall think im a dick..im not trying to be.i think im going to try the vg30de.maybe the dett,but god that would be a bitch to work on.its going to be a daily,so i want a fairly easy engine to work on.i dont want to turbo the vg30e cuz wouldnt i have to replace the pistons?that wouldnt be fun at all.vg33e is on the table too.god this is a head ache and a half.ive got a bankroll of 5k for now.but im waiting and waiting until something clicks and clicks hard in my head.the 33 is calling though.
why do you think you have to change the 30e pistons? there are many 300+hp vg30e-t running around on stock pistons.
vg33 wont be as cut and dry as you think. it uses a different crank, with a different pulley. you would either have to swap in the 30 crank, or figure out a different setup for you alt, p/s and a/c if you wanted to keep them.
Sean1978So much fluff like this thread on here all the time. This forum would be 1000 times better without the useless fantasy threads.
"Nismooligist"
I'll break this into suburban hip-hop speak for you.
Is you want to silence the "haters" I have a suggestion: Don't talk about it, be about it.
word is bond.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:24 pm · #23
ive got an ase tech backing me with 30+ years in the biz and 4 years at a nissan dealership.i think im good with any "fantasy" swap i chose.weve got the know how and definitely have the will.where should i look up info on the vg33??wiki?i coudnt keep all of it where it was on the vg33?i have to go see one for myself.measure it all up and everything.i just figured,it was an engine without a turbo,and turbo models have the turbo pistons with the indent in the top.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:24 pm · #24
Draconis
As far as engine management. I dont see why it's that hard. That's where you get into the basics of tuning. I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is. Just get a piggy back or standalone. It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.
yes it is.
the thing ive seen some do is use the harness/ecu from a vq30 maxima, but there are features on the 35 that the 30 wont work with, especially if you go with a rev up motor.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:26 pm · #25
nismologistwhat the fuck is that suppost to mean??you callin me ghetto or something??i appreciate the positive stuff,but i dont need any negativity.thats just ppl trying to bring me down.but waste your time if you feel the need.
I think he is basically sayin what I did, that lots of people talk big but do little... even I have been guilty of that in the past, although I try not to be.
Ok enough of the flaming... look, this is a discussion about swaps. Some of us feel one way, some of us feel another. We can discuss that, but it doesn't have anything to do with anyone personally... or SHOULDN'T, or I'll have to start bustin' heads.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:28 pm · #26
didnt someone say something about a vg34??where the hell do i find one of those?
Dec 9, 2008, 12:29 pm · #27
DraconisAs far as engine management. I dont see why it's that hard. That's where you get into the basics of tuning. I dont think the Z is as integrated as the R34 GTR and the R35 GTR is. Just get a piggy back or standalone. It still takes time and some basic knowledge or you'll eff up your motor.
Actually I would think it would be much harder, because the R34 is an older tech than the VQ (if that's the engine you're talking about), and because the R34 is a jap-spec engine, with less electronics. Unless you were to get a JDM VQ which now you're adding even more complication to the plan.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:30 pm · #28
brewster240yes it is.
the thing ive seen some do is use the harness/ecu from a vq30 maxima, but there are features on the 35 that the 30 wont work with, especially if you go with a rev up motor.
That blows. It seems that a lot of the new engines that are key players in the power game seem to be very well integrated into the car itself. Man, that makes swapping and tuning one PITA.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:30 pm · #29
Dec 9, 2008, 12:31 pm · #30
nismologistdidnt someone say something about a vg34??where the hell do i find one of those?
I think it was a typo, and he meant 33... or bored/stroked?
Dec 9, 2008, 12:32 pm · #31
brewster240timing belt on a vq in or out of the car is impossible. vq uses a timing chain.
LOL nice
Dec 9, 2008, 12:32 pm · #32
thanks for the pics brewster.haha thats how i feel right now.i wasnt aware that there is a vq30.whatd those come in??
Dec 9, 2008, 12:33 pm · #33
vg34 was not a typo, thats why i typed it twice.
its a 33 bored out with 45 pistons.
there used to be a great article on one built for a pathfinder, but the site is down.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:34 pm · #34
That is quite an impressive collection of Fail Brewster.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:34 pm · #35
I think I speak for everyone when I restate the following (and in a civil tone unlike some of you maroooons lol):
- Talk is cheap.
- Do what you're gonna do, instead of telling us you're gonna do it.
- Take lots of pics, whether you WIN or FAIL.
/thread
Dec 9, 2008, 12:34 pm · #36
vq30 came in a lot of cars, maxima, i30, etc.
there were also jdm rwd versions, and a rwd vq30det.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:34 pm · #37
there wouldnt be engine swaps if people didnt that the plunge and give it a try. if it works out, great... you just pioneered the VQ swap into an s12s. if u fail, so what. atleast u tried it and wasnt all talk. the info you gain from the failure will be useful for the next person who tries it and someone, somday, might succeed in pairing that motor into this chassis.
good luck if you attempt it
Dec 9, 2008, 12:36 pm · #38
ArroI think I speak for everyone when I restate the following (and in a civil tone unlike some of you maroooons lol):
- Talk is cheap.
- Do what you're gonna do, instead of telling us you're gonna do it.
- Take lots of pics, whether you WIN or FAIL.
/thread
threads like this arent always completely bad.
aside from the sillyness there is knowledge being passed around which might not ever surface without talking about it.
why spend tons of money trying something without discussing and researching first?
Dec 9, 2008, 12:38 pm · #39
Well, that depends on why the failure.. if it's because of lack of funds or knowhow, then it was doomed to fail from the start. I always try not to plan with what I call "virtual" funds for a project, meaning I don't have the budget to do it until the money is in my hands. I didn't even commit myself to a swap until I knew the money for the motorset was there.
Even then, buying an engine, yanking out your own, and things ending there, with the other engine collecting dust in the side of the garage, that's not failure from trying, that's just FAIL.
So yeah, it depends. If it CAN be done, I say DO IT, but if you're not really in a position to do so, save your duckets and do what you CAN do. That's all I'm really suggesting here.
And I'm not opposed to these threads, so long as we understand that it's just TALK until someone shells out the cash and blood/sweat/tears and makes it happen.
Right now, this is all internet engine swapping, not reality. Can it be reality? That's TBD.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:38 pm · #40
AS for the integrated system, yes it can be done. But honestly, I would def. have to stand with Arro on this one. For the main collective of us on here, it would be a bit out of our league. The wiring alone needs to be overhauled in the entire car. I have only seen this once attempted. S13 coupe with the current day Holden Manaro/Pontiac GTO. They literally ripped the entire wiring harness out of the GTO and placed it into the S13. All they did was modify the connections and lengths to make it fit and connect to the Nissan points. It took a while but was well worth it. That beast drove and sounded like nothing else. So if you want to go that route, you may want to consider that type of electrical swap instead of trying to repin/modify the existing wiring harness to fit the stock S12 harness. If done, I would give major props to that person. I have done a bit but that's not something I would look forward too personally.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:41 pm · #41
DraconisAS for the integrated system, yes it can be done. But honestly, I would def. have to stand with Arro on this one. For the main collective of us on here, it would be a bit out of our league. The wiring alone needs to be overhauled in the entire car. I have only seen this once attempted. S13 coupe with the current day Holden Manaro/Pontiac GTO. They literally ripped the entire wiring harness out of the GTO and placed it into the S13. All they did was modify the connections and lengths to make it fit and connect to the Nissan points. It took a while but was well worth it. That beast drove and sounded like nothing else. So if you want to go that route, you may want to consider that type of electrical swap instead of trying to repin/modify the existing wiring harness to fit the stock S12 harness. If done, I would give major props to that person. I have done a bit but that's not something I would look forward too personally.
thats kinda dumb since the gm harness' are easy to brake down and make standalone, or there are many prewired harness setups available to do it.
i kept trying to tell that lt1 kid that who kept going on and on about his speed sensor.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:44 pm · #42
Just buy the shit and do it. I'm sure it can be done. My roomate has a VQ30 FWD and 2 RWD VQ35DE's and a 350Z manual trans sitting in the garage and I'm contemplating the swap myself. Guy named mark who has a VQ35 in his S13 with the stock ECU comes to my house often. He's working on putting one into a B13 sentra at the moment.
I'm sure it's a lot easier with a standalone. this site sells a standalone AND a harness:
link
Take your money and buy the stuff, then we can have an actual technical discussion about real problems instead of pondering everything as if we are trying to pull off some impossible task.
Dec 9, 2008, 12:48 pm · #43
juliethere wouldnt be engine swaps if people didnt that the plunge and give it a try. if it works out, great... you just pioneered the VQ swap into an s12s. if u fail, so what. atleast u tried it and wasnt all talk. the info you gain from the failure will be useful for the next person who tries it and someone, somday, might succeed in pairing that motor into this chassis.
good luck if you attempt it
I totally agree with you. I remember a very similar argument when I first talked about doing my RB swap. All talk no go. The weight would be messed up. The modification is incredibly heavy and would take a lot of money, skills and such.
Let me see. I proved it can be done on a budget without heaps of money. The modification was there but not abnormal like so many had ideas about. Actually from what I found out AFTER I did my swap, my modification/fabrication was very much akin to what they do in the domestic muscle cars back in the day. Apparently the route I took was similar in fashion to ones that were taken before. The weight wasnt that much more than the VG30E. Yes, the Rb weighed a little more and mostly due to it's length, but it only increased the front's weight by 1 or 2% and the car still handled VERY well and was quite responsive. Yes, a couple attempts and ideas were fail, but from those we were able to figure out what worked and hit something golden.
Like I said before, if I could, I would have tried VQ. If I had the chance and ability to now, I would. I dont think it's that far out of the realm. If anything, getting it into the car is the easy part. The hard part is the wiring and electronics to match up to our car and run properly. If you do VQ, just do your research. Like anything, do your research. Yes, talking on forums helps but at some point you have to do your own thinking for all you get is this stuff. Some people for it. Some people against it. Some people dont care. Others that understand but pepper in caution and good advice. And some people who will say stuff just because even though they are just an armchair tuner/mechanic/know-it-all. That is what I did. I heard a lot of shit and very few supported me. I did my own reading and looking at other setups. I found someone who was willing to help me out in the areas I knew little about. Did some basic concept drawings and planning. Once I felt confident enough that it was possible and not impossible, I delved into the project head first.
Dec 9, 2008, 1:05 pm · #44
if i end up going vq i will take the entire harness with it.and get rid of mine.
Dec 9, 2008, 1:26 pm · #45
nismologistif i end up going vq i will take the entire harness with it.and get rid of mine.
Well that's kinda how it is for like, every swap. Still gotta splice it into your dash harness, so you can get your cluster and whatnot working right.... some harnesses require other body harness components. I had this discussion in the SR20VE thread, and someone reminded me that the JDM engines aren't as dependent as ours are with the chassis... but that wouldn't be the case with a USDM VQ. You might end up having to transplant odd sensors you never expected, so be prepared for that.
Dec 9, 2008, 1:31 pm · #46
nismologisti dont want to turbo the vg30e cuz wouldnt i have to replace the pistons?that wouldnt be fun at all.
Id suggest a rebuild of any engine you choose to swap into your car for reliability purposes. If you are tearing down the motor to rebuild it why not throw some lower compression pistons while you're at it? Im not advocating the vg30e necessarily for the turbo cause Ive heard nothing but headaches come from them, but if you want to make power, turbos are your friends
Dec 9, 2008, 1:57 pm · #47
i need a fun,reliable car.not perticularly a tire roasting beast.maybe i will just get another vg and have it blueprinted,port and polished,and head work done.that would give me some extra power.I GOT IT!!!i think a vg30e with headwork and a supercharger.ive seen that in the forum somewhere.less of a headache and a lot easier.
Dec 9, 2008, 2:50 pm · #48
lol weve got a vq35de and 6spd tranny sitting in my buddys garage..... no harness though just motor and tranny
Dec 9, 2008, 2:56 pm · #49
nismologisti need a fun,reliable car.not perticularly a tire roasting beast.maybe i will just get another vg and have it blueprinted,port and polished,and head work done.that would give me some extra power.I GOT IT!!!i think a vg30e with headwork and a supercharger.ive seen that in the forum somewhere.less of a headache and a lot easier.
If you want NA power from a VG, the VG30E is not the way to go. If you can fit the supercharger to it, that would be interesting, but you'd be better off going VG33 than you would be with a fully "built" VG30E.
Dec 9, 2008, 3:03 pm · #50
when the time comes i will let you guys know.i know its going to be vg.i just want the car done for summer./if i do vq i will be wiring it all summer.i dont like that idea of working all summer and driving it in winter.maybe just the vg33er will suffice.