Being Unique And Not Following The Herd

as you can figure im pretty sure im going to build my CA20 from the ground up and run it on some sort of engine managment......i know as some of you are reading this you cant hardly wait to tell me that i am wasting my time and money....the question is why? why not be unique.....ho many of you on this forum can justify with personal experience that its not worth the money to build a CA20..im not talking bolt ons..im talking a BUILT motor. im sur alot of you are thnkig...."just buy a KA, SR, or ca18det and swap it"....i could do that but whats the reward in it really? going fast...ok?...so you are like 1 of 1,000,000 people in the nissan world that has done those swaps. not taking credit away from any of you for doing so, but for me, i want to be original. a high compression built CA20 is just that...i dont care that it wont make gobs of HP....but for what i will use the car for (autocross,drifting,weekend fun) i think it will be plenty.

im sure that i will get "your throwing your money away" comments etc....well, ive done my reasearch on plenty of other forums, includig aussie/euro forums and have concluded that it is indeed worth building the motor and will see nice gains....no offesne to any one of you guys but i feel most of you just jump on the banwagon of "those motors are junk" without really knowing what you are talking about...

so, love me, hate me, call me an idiot...its cool....im going to carry on with the build. HP numbers are questionable but im thinkig somehwere in the 140's at the wheels should be doable..maybe more on a race gas tune...we will see.

Trevor

This post has been edited by jaidedeye: Jan 8 2008, 11:15 PM

just buy a ka

AHahaHaHAHQhA!

What are your plans? what pistons and rods? what are you doing with the head? what cam are you using? what EMU are you going with?

Fresh Built High Compression thoroughly tuned 2.0L > Stock high mileage 2.4L
You will be happier when your done, and I will be envious.

If you have not researched, look into megasquirt, and talk to empendocles about it.

DeathAndMajesty @ Jan 8 2008, 05:07 PM
Fresh Built High Compression thoroughly tuned 2.0L > Stock high mileage 2.4L
You will be happier when your done, and I will be envious.

If you have not researched, look into megasquirt, and talk to empendocles about it.

Rock on Dude!. Sure no one ever builds CA20s, but I'm sure people beat the hell outta them. I've never seen one fail. Keep us posted.

CallaroSX @ Jan 8 2008, 08:24 PM
What are your plans? what pistons and rods? what are you doing with the head? what cam are you using? what EMU are you going with?

Empedocles99 @ Jan 8 2008, 09:22 PM
Indeed, I've already done all the hard work to figure out how to megasquirt the ca20e (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Here's the response you've been waiting for, the one nay-sayer with a mouth full with no personal experience with a ca20. Your goal is 140 to the wheels after all that work? Do you really think it's worth it? Putting in a cheap, stock KA will get you around those numbers without any build expense. And since in stock form you can get those numbers, the potential is far greater. Why build an old motor whose in-end potential is that of a plain jane KA? To be original or unique? That's the worst piss poor excuse ever, being unique gets you like what? 5 brownie points from a nissan classic car connoisseur? street cred? let's you sleep at night?

If you want to simply build it, then build it. Cool. Whatever gets your car running, working, on the track, etc whatever. Cool. But if you're going to build, spend money, spend time on a motor that will get as much hp as a stock KA, and then claim to be unique and say that other's are following some trend or bandwagon, that's fucking lame. Some things are just common sense, like brushing your teeth twice a day. I personally follow that twice a day tooth brushing bandwagon.

I'm not trying to attack you or be a total fuck face, so please spare me the "you don't know what you're talking about and I'm angry and I'm gonna call you names and shit" response. Just give me a reasonable response to my KA suggestion. I just really don't see the point, uniqueness or otherwise.

i say let the guy do what he wants to do... if u want to fulley build a CA20... GO FOR IT! its ur car, ur money, and ur ideas.... Go for it man! just to let u know... ur base is bout 80hp stock... dats what mine did on the dyno.... good luck man... post up!

See if you can get more specs on that cam. It's pretty much a industry standard to measure at .050, why their measuring at .020 I don't know. It seems to be very vauge for CA 2-valve cams, even Nissas is lack-luster on giving specs.

What's your intended power band? I think for that cam you could just skip the forgies, and save some money. See how far you could shave the head. Go to the junk yard and buy 2-valve heads. Your pretty much going to be a pioneer of head porting and shaving. Fordges will get you the ability to handle a higher redline and more power. If you don't have the head flow or cam to go way up on the tach, forget the forgies. I'd guess you could probably even go pretty high on stock rods with no boost.

See if you can find Candellen, he's got heat treated stock CA20 rods and is running a CA18det head and turbo. If you get your rods done and lighten your pistons you could probably go past 7K maybee even 7.5K with no boost maybee even higher. You'll need head flow and a custom ground cam though. POWERS IN THE HEAD FLOW! build the bottom-end to take the power you plan on making with the top-end. For that cam, do a stock bottom end. Fordged pistons aren't light, Try head work first for CR and flow. Buy more CA20s. You should get them cheap.

How good are you? can you weld? Weld aluminum? Got a problem with the 4-valve head? Your talking sheet-metal intake. Try and grind the ports as high in the head as you could go and move the flanges as need be. Or switch to a 4-valve head.

I'll try and call IPP when I get a chance. I got a Moratorium on my 200SX spending, and I'm passing emmissions with my Euro cam. But I'm interested to. If you call let me know.

JonB @ Jan 8 2008, 11:16 PM
I'll try and call IPP when I get a chance. I got a Moratorium on my 200SX spending, and I'm passing emmissions with my Euro cam. But I'm interested to. If you call let me know.

two words - twin-turbo!!!!!

no offense taken brother and to be honest you do have good points. just taking a different approach to the whole thing is what im looking at and not having to deal with wiring up shit etc...even though i might go with a megasquirt...lol

eventually my IS300 will be boosted, my wifes mini cooper is supercharged so im looking for a fun NA car in my family...

the ca20's are cheap, plenty around to get spare parts, my car is already configured for one from the factory, im not drag racing it, its going to be a weekend toy that i take out drifting etc..its not going to be a daily driver...

asparagus @ Jan 8 2008, 10:13 PM
Here's the response you've been waiting for, the one nay-sayer with a mouth full with no personal experience with a ca20. Your goal is 140 to the wheels after all that work? Do you really think it's worth it? Putting in a cheap, stock KA will get you around those numbers without any build expense. And since in stock form you can get those numbers, the potential is far greater. Why build an old motor whose in-end potential is that of a plain jane KA? To be original or unique? That's the worst piss poor excuse ever, being unique gets you like what? 5 brownie points from a nissan classic car connoisseur? street cred? let's you sleep at night?

If you want to simply build it, then build it. Cool. Whatever gets your car running, working, on the track, etc whatever. Cool. But if you're going to build, spend money, spend time on a motor that will get as much hp as a stock KA, and then claim to be unique and say that other's are following some trend or bandwagon, that's fucking lame. Some things are just common sense, like brushing your teeth twice a day. I personally follow that twice a day tooth brushing bandwagon.

I'm not trying to attack you or be a total fuck face, so please spare me the "you don't know what you're talking about and I'm angry and I'm gonna call you names and shit" response. Just give me a reasonable response to my KA suggestion. I just really don't see the point, uniqueness or otherwise.

Haha, thats good. You seem to have it mostly figured out knowing the options available, hell just don't let yourself down. Building up any motor is a fun experience.

asparagus @ Jan 10 2008, 04:36 AM
Haha, thats good. You seem to have it mostly figured out knowing the options available, hell just don't let yourself down. Building up any motor is a fun experience.

That is an extra 30% of lift man.

Get your pistons milled to receive the longer valves if your new set doesn't have valve cuts.

Get proper valve springs, with the extra lift, she needs to be asian tight.

This will be your biggest problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NpzU4pGjc...feature=related

With the .700 valve lift @ 7000 rpm, Stock lift is .460, so there is an extra 52.2 percent of valve lift on this engine. They use nothing but premium parts and this bastard is still floating at just 7000 rpm. You dont want to build this bad ass N/A and have somthing like Valve float take a huge dump on your baby...

Go with premium material lifters.

When this is done I am calling fuckin shotgun.

Also check out the cosworth 20,000 rpm engine that pops up after the video... lol THAT IS BADASS.

wich cam are you referring to? the IPPwebcam says the stock valve train should be fine. ive built other motors, i know what is required for X amount of lift. thats why i was asking about max lift on valve springs...

should i just go with the IPP/webcam to be on the safe side? the pistons i am getting will clear that cam. i havent found aftermarket valve springs for a CA20....are they the same a the ca18det?

i wish i could talk to some guys who actually have that cam....

i think with the right porting, tunning i could turn 7krpm

DeathAndMajesty @ Jan 10 2008, 10:19 AM
That is an extra 30% of lift man.
Get your pistons milled to receive the longer valves if your new set doesn't have valve cuts.

Get proper valve springs, with the extra lift, she needs to be asian tight.

This will be your biggest problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_NpzU4pGjc...feature=related

With the .700 valve lift @ 7000 rpm, Stock lift is .460, so there is an extra 52.2 percent of valve lift on this engine. They use nothing but premium parts and this bastard is still floating at just 7000 rpm. You dont want to build this bad ass N/A and have somthing like Valve float take a huge dump on your baby...

Go with premium material lifters.

When this is done I am calling fuckin shotgun.

Also check out the cosworth 20,000 rpm engine that pops up after the video... lol THAT IS BADASS.

that vid is awesome

and good luck with teh build!!! be sure to do a write up and keep us informed of progress (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I say go for the build I agree with you about the whole swap thing ( all though it's not a bad idea and something I will eventually do) But I'm currently doing a full build on my ca18et which everyone says is a bad idea but I'm hard headed so I'm gonna do it my way anyway and see what happens I too want to build a bad ass ca20 motor myself so be sure to do a write-up cuz I will be taking notes

jaidedeye @ Jan 10 2008, 06:39 AM

anyone know about this colt cam company?

Seriously dude more power to you that is why you own a s12 right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) to be unique? so why not take it one step farther and do something even more unique if you need parts for ca's lmk just letting you know you got support (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

I know I am planing to build my ca up next year.

LOL @ this thread, the guy decided to do what we told him to and ended up "Following the heard" he got a KA thats going into the car. Also remember how he didnt care if he got that much power out of it? Well now hes talking about building a 550hp KA-T

Paul @ Apr 7 2008, 08:42 PM
LOL @ this thread, the guy decided to do what we told him to and ended up "Following the heard" he got a KA thats going into the car. Also remember how he didnt care if he got that much power out of it? Well now hes talking about building a 550hp KA-T

as ive been digging around in the motor on my racecar, i have noticed (with the help of some of the members here) that i have forged flat-topped pistons and a reground cam. does anyone know how to measure a cam without a cam doctor? with calipers i know its definately different then the stock cam from the used head i bought. i have never had the custom aluminum oilpan off so havent seen the rods.and this is the only ca motor ive ever seen so didnt realize what was there until you guys pointed it out. i am having the head decked, a valve job, and some portwork done soon, so i guess i can say i have a built ca20e. and the times that i have raced it in the past it pulled pretty hard until i shifted about 7k. as soon as i figure out more, or get back on the racetrack i tell you more about the kinds of cars i can accelerate with. i may even see if my buddy still has his dyno, might be cool to see what it makes.

Bluke, the stock one runs out of breath at about 6k, that's awesome yours wants to rev that high (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In my car it's pointless to run it much past 6 because the power drops off very quickly.

Empedocles99 @ Apr 8 2008, 11:01 AM
Bluke, the stock one runs out of breath at about 6k, that's awesome yours wants to rev that high (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) In my car it's pointless to run it much past 6 because the power drops off very quickly.

Can you use a dial indicater and a degree wheel? Even keep the cam in the head.

You can fix the problem of the sohc by getting a cam ground or made. Also I'm using ball bearings in my cam since the highest the cam ever spins is less than 6 or 7k But this is a work in progress lol.

240DAVE @ Apr 8 2008, 10:42 PM
You can fix the problem of the sohc by getting a cam ground or made. Also I'm using ball bearings in my cam since the highest the cam ever spins is less than 6 or 7k But this is a work in progress lol.

Actually they are needle bearings and I ordered the bearings and cut down the cam so that I can press them on. It frees up some friction and I am going to see if I can make some roller rockers not to shure if I want to spend the time in the machine shop to do it though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) this build is taking way too much time and getting a bit out of hand lol! I'll try to post up some pics for everyone.

jaidedeye @ Jan 8 2008, 11:12 PM
as you can figure im pretty sure im going to build my CA20 from the ground up and run it on some sort of engine managment......i know as some of you are reading this you cant hardly wait to tell me that i am wasting my time and money....the question is why? why not be unique.....ho many of you on this forum can justify with personal experience that its not worth the money to build a CA20..im not talking bolt ons..im talking a BUILT motor. im sur alot of you are thnkig...."just buy a KA, SR, or ca18det and swap it"....i could do that but whats the reward in it really? going fast...ok?...so you are like 1 of 1,000,000 people in the nissan world that has done those swaps. not taking credit away from any of you for doing so, but for me, i want to be original. a high compression built CA20 is just that...i dont care that it wont make gobs of HP....but for what i will use the car for (autocross,drifting,weekend fun) i think it will be plenty.
im sure that i will get "your throwing your money away" comments etc....well, ive done my reasearch on plenty of other forums, includig aussie/euro forums and have concluded that it is indeed worth building the motor and will see nice gains....no offesne to any one of you guys but i feel most of you just jump on the banwagon of "those motors are junk" without really knowing what you are talking about...

so, love me, hate me, call me an idiot...its cool....im going to carry on with the build. HP numbers are questionable but im thinkig somehwere in the 140's at the wheels should be doable..maybe more on a race gas tune...we will see.

Trevor

so where is the update how's the build going?

its not going, the guy who wrote all that stuff about being Unique and shit is putting a KA24E in his car now and is turboing it.

Hes a very fickle dude.

Zitron Erizo @ Apr 20 2008, 11:12 PM
I'm totally with you man. It starting to seem that alot of people are swapping from the S13 and S14 chassis which means there are 240s in sheep clothings. You are staying true to the s12 chassis and if more people stick to it we will see more aftermarket parts start coming to the surface. It might take a while but I'm sure 12 years ago hardly anyone knew what a AE86 was except for diehard toyota fans. If everybody swapped a KA, SR, or RB in the S12 this club would be known as "Club-S12.5"

I have a freshly rebuilt CA20E in my dead S12 just sitting there until I blow the one in my car now, 96K miles on it with royal purple and it still starts right up in less than 2 seconds and doesn't burn a drop of oil can't say much about the crappy 4 gear auto trans though it really manages to suck and blow at the same time
65mph=3000rpm?!wtf?

keep building that beauty man