Putting money into an old vehicle

Many people seem to think its a bad idea to keep an old car going as a daily driver. Its seems to be a mindset that many share. On the Zcar forum, one of the guys seemed to think it a better idea to spend $5000 on a newer car rather than fi his old Z31.

Considering the S12's low operating costs and performance ratio, it would make best financial sense to keep it running. I even did the head gasket repair at 448,000 miles. When one looks only at the financial side, it definitely makes sense, and the only downside I see is that one may be able to pick up another S12 for much less than the cost of upkeep.

Of course if it weren't for people buying lots of new cars, I wouldn't be developing as much new stuff, or even working in the field, so it is a good thing.

I bought my 86 for $900 put roughly $4000 over 7 years, into it, and have driven it over 300,000 miles. Granted if the unibody is totally rusted out, replacement might be valid, but otherwise the cost / mile and down time/mile is so much lower than new cars, it still amazes me when someone gets rid of an older car with only minor problems.

A friend in the service business has some real stories. Some lady lost a water pump on a 95 Lumina. She had spent something to the tune of $800 on it in the previous year and had owned it for 5 years. She sold it to him for the cost of the towing to his garage. He got a used car in great shape with $800 of new parts for $100, stuck a water pump in it for another $100, and now will probably sell it for a quick profit.

Any comments
Ron
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1973 Saab Sonett V4
1984 & 1986 200SX
1985 & 1986 300ZX

this rings true big time for the s12, you put 4000 in over 7 years, but if you wanted to run it like a hog you could have put 500 or less probably. These cars are fairly easy to fix. In the time i've had mine, my moms put something to the tune of 2000-2500 into her 2002 CRV (still on warrenty of course), where as the only "maintance" costs i've had would be oil changes. Granted i've spend somewhere around 500 on visualy improving it, but thats optional.
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Geoff Golda
1986 200sx Notchback, CA20E

This is absolutely correct, so long as you're talking about the right car (like the S12. Many other cars wouldn't have a prayer of seeing 300K). Your location also plays a role. I probably could not own my S12 if I still lived in Buffalo, NY. Cars, especially Japanese cars, usually rust to junk up there before they see 15 years of service. Yet another benefit of moving south.
My father owned a 1978 Toyota Corolla for 12 years, bought it in Charleston, SC. During that time we lived in SC, Northern Virginia, Kingston NY, Columbus OH, Northern VA again, and finally Buffalo. He took such great care of that car, but all his effort couldn't keep the frame from rusting through after a few years in Western New York.
But when you live in a less hostile climate, and when you have an older car which is engineered to the level of ours (re: a Nissan, Honda, or Toyota), it almost always makes financial sense to keep it going as long as possible.
I'm so thankful that the S12 became my favorite car, and not the Camaro or Mustang or something like that. He is fortunate who can be so happy with a car he bought for $2000 cash, and which keeps him from longing for something new every couple years and diving deeper into debt.
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Its amazing to see the specs on new vehicles. Some have zero margin in the heads. Eg, no machining is possible. Therefore, if anything goes wrong, a new engine is mandatory to the tune of $7000-$15000. The extended warranties are pretty much a must with cars with those engines.

Its also amazing the downtime/mile on new vehiciles. Even if its covered under warranty, the loss of a vehicle for 2-4 days while waiting for parts is a real pita. I've gotten pretty much every part I've needed next day from NAPA, and then the S12 usually gives some warning before quiting, unlike some of the newer models.

My $4000 figure was mostly PM, 16 tires, 5 ehaust systems, 5 alternators, 4 water pumps, shocks and struts 3 times, wheel bearings front and rear twice. 3 rocker shafts, 5 brake jobs including 3 sets of rotors and 2 complete caliper rebuilds, rebuilt master cylinder, and rack and pinion and 1 fuel injector. The other thing is that the S12 was in pretty poor shape when I got it. No ehaust, worn out tires and brakes.

Living in MN, I purchase low mileage rated tires with soft rubber. They wear out fast, but are really good in the snow, and that way I get new rears every year. Exhaust pipes seem to be good for about 14 months. I would guess that the high salt usage, and extreme cold weather tend to aggravate parts wear. The amazing thing is that even in -30 deg F, the engine would fire right up without preheat. The tranny on the other hand, needed a fair amount of warmup before I could move the shifter. I kept thinking I should add an engine and tranny heater, but just never got around to it.

The Z31 I bought for $650 was also pretty worn out. I spent around $600 to make it roadworthy, and now its running pretty well. It does seem to do pretty good on ice as well. Then again I learned to drive in a 2wd pickup without weight in the back, well not quite, my bass amp was pretty heavy.

Its amazing to me, that a 22 year old will spend a huge amount of their monthly budget on a new car, and yet still have more downtime/mile than I have ever experienced.

Thanks
Ron
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1973 Saab Sonett V4
1984 & 1986 200SX
1985 & 1986 300ZX

Well ... I guess for me it's a labor of love. I've chosen mostly classics or muscle cars as daily drivers. And I live in the salt belt.
Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of owning a new car and getting rid of it before it needs repair, but I'd hate it. I need to modify. It's a disease, but I modify everything I own, from cars to instruments and gear.
What drives the cost up, and a lot of customers' ire is this silly mentality of re and re. You take a car to a mechanic, they check the book, charge you a set rate, and replace what was broken. They never diagnose the problem in the first palce. How many people do you know who complain of "recurring" problems? 99% of the time it's because the repair is not what was wrong with the car in the first place. And newer cars are ridiculously expensive to repair. A friend of mine called me because her friend was haivng a "recurring" problem with a 2000 VW TDI. For a rattle and shake from the front end, she had brakes, suspension and some transmission work done. Finally, the problem was isolated ... the injector pump. Apparently a common problem on any TDI more than 3 years old. So I figured no biggie right?
The fricking part was $1600 without core charge. Plus labor. I could buy 10 S12s like mine for that.
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1987 200sx CA18ETi
1972 Dodge Charger 413ci/6.6L
1968 Mercury Cougar 289ci/4.6L ForSale
Matt Lamperd
http://www.angelfire.com/freak/brutesquad/index.html

i think it's true to a point. sometimes the cost of fixing and old car just isn't worth it as you buy another running, newer used car for the same or less money.i'm not talking pm, but when things break. there comes a point when things atrt to nickel and dime you to death. it's hard to recognise that point tho icon_biggrin.gif

modifying cars will almost never appreciate the value of a car

i'd love to have a new car as i've never owned a new car in my life. but financially, it doesn't make sense. car buying is never a fully logical decision anyways. icon_biggrin.gif

About those engine rebuilds on newer vehicles. My parents purchased a 2000 Honda CR-V in early 2001. In the (less than) 3 years that they've had it, it has needed a completely new engine, new transmission, a new radiator, and work on the ABS system. All of this was covered under warranty, but their warranty runs out in a year and they're getting pretty desperate to sell it because they couldn't afford it if anything else went wrong. Also, the new engine took 2 weeks to deliver and another 3 days to install and test. The new transmission was another week and a half. The rad suprisingly took 2 days. The work on the ABS system took a week. Overall, about 5.5 weeks of downtime just for repairs in the last 3 years, let alone regular maintenance ...

My S12 has had less than 2 days of downtime in the year and a half that I've had it ... 1 day because one of my plug wires somehow got torn at the end and I didn't have money to fix it until the next day. Another day to fix the brakes. I've spent around $300 fixing my S12, which seems like a lot to a student who pays for his own schooling and works part-time at minimum wage, but that was to rebuild the 2 rear calipers and grind down the 2 rear rotors. My car will need more money and downtime in the future as the front brakes and rear suspension need to be worked on/replaced, but that shouldn't be too expensive ...

Mine has been out of action for 12 months & cost me AU$11000 so far. But then again I'm building a comprehensive, ground up, ball breaker with a unique combination of Japaeese parts. Stupidly I could've bought an S13 (CA18DET or SR20DET) for that money, but it wouldn't be in better than new condition & this unique.
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Candellan
S12 Silvia - CA20DET - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/s12.htm
AE82 TwinCam16 Seca - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/rolla.htm

exactly, s12's to me now have more appeal than s13's. Maybe its just me the but retroness is sweet.
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Geoff Golda
1986 200sx Notchback, CA20E

It ain't just you, donk. That retro-uniqueness is a big part of why a lot of us love our S12's so much. Especially with s13's getting so trendy, it's nice to have a car that causes people to say, "What the hell is that?"

And it confuses the hell out of B14 200-SentraX owners. I actually heard one say, "Wow, it's interesting to see how the 200SX has evolved over the years." I had to enlighten him to the fact that there is no evolution between his car and mine. If he wants to see the evolution of his car he needs to go look at old Sentras.
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heh, idiot B14'er. but yeah, i love the "what the hell is that"'s too. I dislike people who automaticly jump to "Pulsar!" because mines a notch. Also was he angry to hear he had a sentra?lol, i would be, 200sx has a sportyness sound to it, and it runs with the 240's 300's and 180's sorta, where as the sentra is just a sedan.
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Geoff Golda
1986 200sx Notchback, CA20E

Well, it is a sedan, but I'd take a classic 91-94 Sentra SE-R anyday. Handles even better than my wife's 92 XE, with an SR20DE instead of the GA16DE. They are niiiice. Of course, my enthusiasm for the B13 Sentra doesn't really carry over to the B14. Looks like a dang jellybean, and heavier than a B13 too.
As far as small sedans go, the B13 Sentra is hard to beat. Ours has been fantastic. I don't drive it as much as I used to. When I had the Dakota, we always took the Sentra when we went anywhere together. Now we almost always take the S12. But that B13 has been nothing short of bulletproof. The GA16 is weak but with the 5-speed it's tolerable. And it keeps my lead-footed wife out of trouble. icon_lol.gif
The trunk is surprisingly large (but why didn't they give it fold-down rear seats?), interior is basic but comfortable. Car handles like a go-kart, never breaks, and gets better than 30 mpg even around town.
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the s12 handels like a go cart too icon_biggrin.gif. but as far as sedans go i love the 88'ish maxima. the headlights are just way too pimp, and the body shape is awesome.
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Geoff Golda
1986 200sx Notchback, CA20E

B-13 SE-R's are amazingly fun little cars!!!

Buying your mom an M30? Dang..makes the card I got my mom look a little puny icon_razz.gif M30's are pretty nice...VG30 motors, softer (feeling) suspension and a plusher interior. Not a bad car at all!
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Kevin Wolcott
87 200SX SE-V6 (Honda Killer)
83 Nissan 720 4x4 (Mountain Rig) Piss on WEBER!!!
66 Ford Mustang (Inline Fever)
81 Yamaha Virago 750
"Happiness is a big smokey burnout!!"

http://geocities.com/Nissan720_99/