Bart's Suspension development

well i got a chance to test fit the 250 rate springs i bought...they will almost work perfect..heres some pics of what the effect of just replacing the coil with the one i bought..of course when i get this done i will use collars to retain stock ride height...and a lower version when i get my camber kits done...



heres the spring im using....



heres what the stock spring looks like



heres the spring i bought..

the effect is about 1-1/2 inches lower....once i get my collars done and the springs in the car i will post some more pics...when i get this done this will be a perfect setup for anyone that wants it...also the spring rates that will be avaiable are 250, 350, and 450lb/ft

so now to the fronts...i test fitted the springs i had up front and they are a tad to long so im going to order some 8inch springs and then setup the collars...heres some pics of what i just did


spring comparison



gotta say the spring looks right at home....this setup will also allow to cut the perch off a bit allowing for a slightly wider tire up front


as you can see the spring is too long and actually raises the car...so i will get a smaller one and play with that..
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

Quick question(s)...

*what tire size do you have?
and
*how did you mount the spring for the test pic?

BTW I think you switched the pics cuz the new spring looks higher to me???
_________________
[jeff]

87/88 SE V6 icon_mrgreen.gif
[like me, its starting to fall apart]

"You only hurt the one you love."
That may be true, but better said:
"You only hurt the one who loves you."

1. 205/60/r15
2. it almost fit nicely over the stock location...it wouldnt stay there if i where to drive it but it did just fine for the test fit...

and the bottom pic is the one with the new spring..its about a inch or so lower then then the pic above it....
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

i may be able to get the guy i know to make me threaded collars like the ones you get with coilovers...i should know sometime next week
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bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

Bart this may be next to useless for you, but I can get either steel or alloy coilover converstion sleeves for struts:


Coil-over conversion kits for front struts (Aluminium style press on) - $145set
Coil-over conversion kits for front struts (Steel sleeve, weldable) - $230set

Hope this helps.
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Candellan
S12 Silvia - CA20DET - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/s12.htm
AE82 TwinCam16 Seca - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/rolla.htm

DUDE!! IF we could get set up with adjustable suspnesion that would be awesome!!! I rather have that then just a somewhat lowered from the 280 and 300ZX springs...
_________________
Kevin Wolcott
87 200SX SE-V6 (Honda Killer)
83 Nissan 720 4x4 (Mountain Rig) Piss on WEBER!!!
66 Ford Mustang (Inline Fever)
81 Yamaha Virago 750
"Happiness is a big smokey burnout!!"

http://geocities.com/Nissan720_99/

its cool that you can get those but man those are spendy...and ya if the works out the way i want we wil have a completly custom setup with height adjustment and some choices of spring rate..
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

Keep us posted Bart...and YOU DA MAN!!! 2thumbs.gif Especially for those of us with limited time to experiment ourselves...
_________________
Kevin Wolcott
87 200SX SE-V6 (Honda Killer)
83 Nissan 720 4x4 (Mountain Rig) Piss on WEBER!!!
66 Ford Mustang (Inline Fever)
81 Yamaha Virago 750
"Happiness is a big smokey burnout!!"

http://geocities.com/Nissan720_99/

bart, what kind of $$ are we lookin for those sexy sexy springs?
_________________
Jeff Hester
1986 200sx 2.0L
1967 El Camino 402ci

the springs run 37 each and the collras im not sure about them yet...
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

The prices I quoted are Aussie Monopoly Dollars, so the steel sleeves are about US$150.
_________________
Candellan
S12 Silvia - CA20DET - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/s12.htm
AE82 TwinCam16 Seca - http://members.optusnet.com.au/~web101/rolla.htm

how does the springs ride now bart? i would imagine they would be stiffer than my tired old stock springs. and for ~$85 shipped its hard to go wrong...
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Jeff Hester
1986 200sx 2.0L
1967 El Camino 402ci

i havent got them on my car yet i just test fitted one to see what kind of collar height would be needed so that stock ride height would be retained..and ya those will be alot stiffer since the stock spring is about 176lbs while the ones im using are 250lbs...
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

could you effectively use them at the lower ride height? there is no tire rub or anything?
_________________
Jeff Hester
1986 200sx 2.0L
1967 El Camino 402ci

i updated the first post with the work on the front setup
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

See those spring compressors flexin'??? icon_eek.gif Damn those things scare the crap out of me!!!! Luckily at work we got this nice unit on the wall rockon.gif ...requires removing the entire strut..but man...worth it in my opinion!!

PS: Looking good Bart!!
_________________
Kevin Wolcott
87 200SX SE-V6 (Honda Killer)
83 Nissan 720 4x4 (Mountain Rig) Piss on WEBER!!!
66 Ford Mustang (Inline Fever)
81 Yamaha Virago 750
"Happiness is a big smokey burnout!!"

http://geocities.com/Nissan720_99/

there really not flexing i just havent taking all the slack out of them so they look like they are flexing
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

so bart, what's the latest news on your custom suspension?

still working on it i havent had much time lately cause i was camping and just got a managment upgrade at work so i work alot more hours, but now i wil have more money to finish alot of stuff on the car...
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

awesome. congrats, and be sure to keep us updated.

this is a rough estimate and isnt set in stone...

rear control arm plates with the sleeve and collar = $100-115

*rear control arm bushings(urethane) = $70

springs in 250, 350, 450 rate = $41each

*rear crossmember camber correction kit with new bushings =$140-160 with core

*rear 8 way adjust shocks = $80each

*urethane endlink kit = $20

*= not neccesary for the coilovers to work... can be done later but better if all done at the same time

so with everything =$572-$607

without * =$182-197

i dont have the rear crossmember camber finished yet... but everything else is good to go
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

So all that is for the rear bart...what about the front.

And your ready to start taking orders??? icon_biggrin.gif

Also, what are you going to charge for the core on those rear crossmembers?
_________________

Travis Hatt
85 Nissan 200sx w/CA18ET: Stock
1/4 Mile: 16.57 @82.21 MPH
CA20E For Sale

the fronts im working on as we speak the core will be just for anybody that orders a rear crossmember from me will have to ship there old one to me.. thats the only charge the core will be
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bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

The bushings looks awesome. I am concerned about the sleeve and spring and how they mate up, I know it's basically the same as stock, but doesnt stock angle more so that there's more of the spring cup contacted?

I am worried about the suspension at full extend, i.e. if the car was up in the air, is the spring then barely sitting on the edge of the new cup on the sleave? Could it pop off? I am thinking about a car catching some air. I know it sounds a bit extreme, but hey icon_razz.gif

Also, how low can this setup gp? I might want more than just 1" drop, I might want 2. I might want a setup that gives me, oh, say four or five inches of total range. Is that doable?

You ARE doing good work tho...

BUt I want to know something didnt we decide that the rear suspension was basically 300ZX Z31, and the front was 280ZX? Are there coilover systems for Z31 rear and 280ZX front? Or is Bart's method better?
_________________
-Jason Arro -- Long Live the UNDERDOG
Club-S12 Moderator
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo Hatch -- DEAD CA20ET icon_sad.gif
http://www.cardomain.com/id/arro200sx
'89 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II
http://www.cardomain.com/id/arro89shelby

the final units will have the the sleeve welded at a angle so the spring sits better, i didnt know it was going to be like that until i got them on, and as far as travel the suspension will travel as much as the stock one and 4-5 inches of drop would be horrible since the rear has about 7inches of travel or so
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

Cool, sounds good.

wait, clarify this travel thing.
_________________
-Jason Arro -- Long Live the UNDERDOG
Club-S12 Moderator
'85 Nissan 200SX Turbo Hatch -- DEAD CA20ET icon_sad.gif
http://www.cardomain.com/id/arro200sx
'89 Dodge Daytona Shelby Turbo II
http://www.cardomain.com/id/arro89shelby

with stock springs you only get about 4-6inches of wheel travel past the point at which it sits normally before the spring has all the coils touching each other and if you wanted to slam it 4-5inches lower you would need a spring thats maybe 5-6inches long and you would need to modify the shock tower to move the mounting point higher or get a very short shock with the right travel.. and if you get air the little springs will come roght off the perch unless you modify the rear shocks so they only extend a certain amount...
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

I have done some more to my rear end, i cut the inner bush off and welded a plate to the ned of the arm, then a threaded bung and fitted a rose joint, it is mounted lower on the arm so that now the eye has to be lifted up to meet the bolt, this then tilts the top of the wheel out and reduces camber.

I got the idea off my rally homoligation papers, it was a GRP A part from Nisimo back in 85, I have some pics i can email you if you like too.
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Cheers
Michael

-------------------------------------------------------
S12 Silvia/FJ20 NA engine/320Hp forest racer rally car
Subaru STI V5 Type R 380Hp/ 0-100-4.2 road rocket

Bart,
Have you remembered where it was that you bought the urethane bushing from, yet?
_________________
87 V6

"Feel My Frankenstien" Alice Cooper

Jeff

hey bart i have a quick question. will this suspension setup fit in the back of my 84 solid rearend? I Hope it does!!!!!!!!!! thanx kevin

sorry it wont the setup is made to fit any irs setup up back but the front will be dependent on ca18et, ca20e and vg models
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

so the front will fit? could i just buy some springs and struts and put them in? cause i want to lower my car about 1 to 2 inches how could i do that? cause i want stiffer susp. and nobody make susp. for my car so any help would be great thanx for the help Kevin

well for the front it will swap on for the rear you will need a suspenson shop to make you a custom setup, but if i had a solid rear s12 in my hands i could make a kit for it as well
_________________
bart
'86 INTERCOOLED Turbo
1/4 mile: 14.964 @93.02mph
CEO of:
"Barts Parts Incorporated"
http://geocities.com/bartc_j
http://members.cardomain.com/bartc_2

to hold the spring in on the back you could mount a steal cable to the top center of the spring seat, and have it run the length of the spring and spring seat and mount it to the bottom with a eye loop bolt. That way the spring can only decompress as far as you hva the cable adjusted for.
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Dan

what is up with this kit is it any good. i don't care to ba able to change the height??

http://www.carparts.com/parts/newsearch2.asp?reflink=0-0-0-0-0&sourceid=2&parttypeid=3103&itemid=3307&autoidsearch=YES
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86 200sx 1.8 turbo
79 ford bronco 351m

nice to see all the custom work going on.

With our s12 we're currently takling the susp as well, we are swaping out the whole rear subframe for a 88 300zx turbo rear subframe diff, hubs axels ect. The front hubs are being changed to 300z as well to fit a z32 brake kit. Right now, we are planning on receiving a susp kit from a company named "K office" in japan. The front control arms HAVE been changed to 300zx. And the tie rods replaced with tein adjustable rods for the s13.

As well, for camber in the front, S13 adjustable camber plates from any company can be used, as long as they are for a strut/spring not a specific coil over set.
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www.RPSport.net